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Lead with Courage
Together with your hosts Cherie and Andy Canning, you'll dive into the minds of the trailblazers, the risk takers and those who embrace life with a growth mindset .
Get ready for real and raw conversations where authentic truths are revealed, uncovering the struggles and resilience required to bounce back.
We invite you to see this podcast as your compass to embracing your own courage to live your biggest, best life!
Lead with Courage
Amanda Spencer | Transformational Goal Setting | Lead with Courage
Amanda Spencer joins the podcast today to talk about her body building journey, about the discipline, and transformational confidence-building that going out of your comfort zone can provide.
Amanda also discusses her 25 year career in People and Culture roles, and most recently and currently as Group Chief People Office at Home Instead.
Amanda discusses the importance of employee engagement and the cultivation of a positive company culture. She shares her perspective on leadership in the workplace today, emphasizing the need for transparency, support, and vulnerability, the importance of setting boundaries and what a healthy work life balance can look like.
By the end of this episode, you'll be left inspired, motivated and ready to take on the world with a new perspective.
Amanda Spencer on LinkedIN
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Thanks for joining us on the Lead with Courage podcast, bought to you by Luminate Leadership. We trust this episode has given you some insights and joy to empower you live your biggest, best life.
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Until the next episode, we hope you live and Lead with Courage!
Cherie and Andy x
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Luminate Leadership is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14.
Hi, I'm Chloe Canning. Luminate Leadership acknowledges the traditional custodians on the land which we record as podcasts the terrible and the agorapy. We pay our respects to Elder's past, present and imaginary.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Lead with Courage, the podcast that celebrates the bold and inspiring stories of leaders making a difference. We're your hosts, andy and Cherie Canning, and together we'll dive into the minds of the trailblazers, the risk takers and those who embrace life with a growth mindset. Today, we welcome to the Lead with Courage podcast Amanda Spencer. Amanda is a group chief people officer at home instead and has had 25 years experience working in the HR and people field. She is so passionate about the positivity mindset and about unlocking potential of all people, creating a positive and inclusive work culture. We love her insights that she shares today from a people perspective for all leaders and workplaces, and also how winning a lucky draw in personal training led to a bodybuilding experience that's really unlocked what is possible in life and what we can achieve. We can't wait for you to hear the conversation with the amazing Amanda Spencer.
Speaker 3:Amanda Spencer, thank you for joining the Lead with Courage podcast today. Not a problem. Oh, it's so exciting to have you here and I heard a minute ago this is your first time podcast interviewee, if you like, or host, or co-host, or whatever version you want to call it.
Speaker 4:It is. I'm a little bit nervous, but we'll get through this. Good nerves.
Speaker 3:Good nerves yeah good nerves Excitement nerves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, welcome. Well, one of the questions we love, we'll just jump straight in. Okay, one of the questions we love to ask everyone that comes on the podcast is what does Lead with Courage mean to you?
Speaker 4:I've been thinking about this actually since the conference last week and over the weekend, and for me, I think leading with Courage is staying true to who I am, but it's also not being fearful, and I think for a lot of people, we're just fearful of making mistakes or being embarrassed, and I think leading with Courage is being able to overcome that and being true to who I am as a person and remaining true to my core values, because that's what I think helps you tackle life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so beautiful, thank you. And now I'm curious with a follow-up question, and this came out at Ignite a bit that question of like, well, who are you, not so much what is your LinkedIn role and your position, but who is Amanda Spencer?
Speaker 4:Yeah, look, I think in the last 10 years is where I've started to really come out with who I actually am as a person. I think in my early years, in my career and personally, I was trying to be, I guess, someone who I was and I was trying to follow others. But now I think I'm more true to who I am and that is someone who is positive, someone who wakes up every day, and I truly believe that I'm grateful to be alive. I think that I want to bring energy to every moment in my life and I think I can share my enthusiasm and, I guess, my spirit for life with people and that's who I am as a person. I'm obviously a mum and I have two kids and that's part of my life and I encourage them to be who they are as well. But I think who I am as a person is someone who is just full of energy and positive of life and I just want to live every day for what it is.
Speaker 2:I couldn't agree more with what I see of you. And from the second, I remember being introduced from one of your former colleagues and I'd worked with her as well, jade and she said you've got to meet Amanda, you just love her, shari, you'll just love her. And we walked into that cafe or into your office and I went oh, I do just love you. You hadn't even spoken yet, so you know, that is you.
Speaker 4:But that's what I feel when I meet you as well. Oh, thank you. You know, I'm like I described you the other day and I was like I just want to hug her and when I'm around her energy, just I just, you know, thrive off it. And I want to give that to people as well, because I think I want to make people smile. I think you do that as well.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3:You guys need a minute and you're dismissed, nice. Nice, Beautiful words exchanging between each other. And I can kind of see, you know, sometimes we have, I guess, on this podcast or different people we're introduced to where you know typically Shari might meet the first, and then they turn up and I'm like, oh yeah, I can see, I can see why they're here, I can see why we're talking to them today, I can see why you know their story resonates, or their Outlook on life resonates, and we don't know each other that well.
Speaker 3:Maybe met a couple of times, including today but I can see exactly why you're here and even in the 10 minutes or so that we recorded before we kicked off the episode. There's so many gold parts in there and this is shaping up to be a good one, I think. Thank you.
Speaker 2:So tell us, I guess you know right now you're a global. Tell us a little bit about your role and what you're at now, and then I'd love to hear about these last 10 years. Yeah.
Speaker 4:So my role now is group chief people officer for Home Instead, so I look after six countries across Europe and Australia and it's an exciting role. I moved into it in October last year and I think it's my opportunity to be able to take what I've learned in my, I guess, over the last 23 years and share that. But most importantly, it's about building great leadership teams. Yeah, I am the head of people and to me, people are the heart and soul of our business and we truly talk about that where I work and I want that to always be at the front line of everything that we do. I don't want to not keep focused on our people, because we don't have a business without great people. So that's really how I, I guess, lead my team. Yeah, it's an exciting journey. I travel a lot internationally. You're six countries.
Speaker 4:Like they're not in a tour, are they no?
Speaker 2:Where are your countries?
Speaker 4:So part of our group is Switzerland, netherlands, ireland, france, australia and New Zealand, so I spend a little bit of time abroad and do you know what? I've actually become really good at packing my bag. I think that's something that I'm really proud of right now, because I used to take a bigger suitcase and it's gone down, down, down to the point where I can probably do two weeks with a onboard luggage Wow, yeah.
Speaker 4:Gee, that's impressive, wow, and that's been a big game of mine, because, you know, when you travel a lot, I like to have real simple, I guess luggage where I can just get on and off planes easily. I don't want that hassle yes, because I don't want to get flustered when I'm in an airport, especially an airport that I'm not familiar with. But I love it, I love travelling, I love being in different parts of the country, I love being able to learn the different cultures within our business. But, most importantly, it always comes back to the people, and everyone will laugh at me at work because I'm always talking about the heart and soul. And then I talk about the right people and the right roles with the right capabilities. So when someone talks about wanting to, you know, put somebody into role or promote, I'll be like, okay, great, so let's talk about are they the right person for the right role with the right capabilities? Because if we always come back to that, then we'll set people up for success.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes. So, true, and for those who might not know about Home Instead, what is it? Home Instead? Yeah, what do you do?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so Home Instead is an in-home care provider, so the brand itself has been around for over 30 years and we provide personalised care within the home and I do truly believe we have a unique offering that is different to our competitors.
Speaker 4:And I know this firsthand because my grandmother lives in North Queensland, where we don't serve us, so she doesn't have that type of care that we train our caregivers with. And it breaks my heart sometimes when I hear her talk about when somebody's coming to her home and they've moved something around or you know they treat her like she's not an adult and that breaks my heart because our seniors of the community, they've lived long lives and we need to give them dignity and respect and we need to learn from them. And I think Home Instead has a remarkable business model that has made it successful. It is a high-end, premium brand because of the way that we train our people and for a business of this size to focus on its people and for its number one, I guess, focus over the last 30 years to be on training and learning development, and I think I've ever worked in a business where that's been the heart of what has built a great business and that is truly what makes our caregivers different to other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so important. And when you're saying about people, people, people, if the caregivers, it's on every level. Oh yes, without a doubt.
Speaker 3:You can't help but filter through the organisation and then to the clients or patients or whatever they may be and I think, for the way the model is set up, it gives purpose.
Speaker 4:So even where at my level, where I'm not interacting with clients and I'm not necessarily interacting with caregivers, I have a sense of purpose every day. But I also make sure that I remember why I work for this brand. So I will go out. I went out early this year to our Redlands office and I went out on a caregiving shift and went to a client's home because I think that's important for everyone At all levels within our business to remember why we work and what we do and why it's so important. In every, I guess, conversation and project that we do in our national office, we need to ask ourselves how is that impacting our clients and how is that making a client's day better? How is that enabling somebody to stay in their home longer? Or how is it empowering our caregivers to do a great job?
Speaker 2:Yes, and sometimes from a head office perspective in different businesses. We can disconnect, conform pretty quickly, definitely.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that's something that I think Home Instead does very well, and it's something that I am very focused on with my team as well, because I think it's important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so crucial, beautiful. Can you tell us about them the last 10 years? You mentioned before about being on a bit of a journey over the last 10 years. What started it? Where have you been? What can you share with us?
Speaker 4:Look the last 10 years, have you know? It's not been, I guess, the nicest story. My mum passed away back in 2010. And I think prior to that I was in this world of just, I guess, going through the grind of life. I didn't really have a focus and, yeah, I was growing my career but I was just living every day. But when she passed away suddenly at 52 and I was 29 28 I Lost a big part of myself and she was the person I would call every day to tell you know the great things that happened in my life. And suddenly that person was gone. And then I realized Really quickly that I wasn't living every day and tomorrow could be my last day and I decided from that moment I mean, I've always been a positive person, but I don't think I appreciate it every day, whereas now I wake up every day and I'm positive and I think when I wake up I'm like it's Monday, it's Tuesday and I'm alive and I'm going to do XYZ or whatever I'm doing today.
Speaker 4:But I always look at things from a positive mindset. And of course, I have bad days where it's hard to get out of that rut, but I always remember that I should be grateful Because you know, when you lose somebody who's close to you, it changes your perspective on life and I think you stop and you really Take stock of life and you stop being ungrateful. You know it's easy to sit back and go oh well, I don't have that handbag, or I didn't get that car, I didn't get that promotion, yeah. But really what's important to you is Not that. What's important to you are the people that you know I around you, that empower you, that make you smile, and I think that that turning point back then Really changed me and I am a different person to who I was back then.
Speaker 4:I've Definitely a lot more confident now because now I'm like, well, you know what, I'm just gonna be, who I'm gonna be. I'm not going to doubt myself. If I want something, I'm gonna go out and get it and some people think that is a little bit bold, but I I'm not gonna live a day where I'm thinking, oh, with regret that I should have done something. I truly believe if I want something in life, I can have it, and that's one of the reasons that I stepped into the role that I stepped into October last year, where a lot of people thought I was crazy. How are you going to do that with children? And I'm like you know what? I want everything. I want to have a family, I want to have a career, I like the international travel and I want to be me and I think that's important and that's how I live life.
Speaker 3:Yes, if, if there was, if there was a video recording this podcast right now, you'd see hands clapping and kind of big smiles. Yes, but yeah, that's really well said and and you could see the, I guess, a unique understanding you've come to with that. I think it's it's it's organic and it happens through different Things in life that are really hard and they challenge us and they and they stretch us and they and they cut deep and then come out of that is. Come out of that is a beautiful new perspectives.
Speaker 4:That's it. I think it's important. You know, I've got two little children and Every day I tell them how much I love them and I kiss them and I hug them and they want me to go away. But it's not about how much time you spend with people, it's the quality of time, and I think people forget that. It's just about when you're with somebody. You need to be present. Yeah, give your whole in that moment. Yes, be focused. And I went to a restaurant, actually in Sydney couple, maybe a month or so ago, and it was very strange. On the table was this little zip leather Pouch and I sat down with my colleague and the next minute the waiter came over and picked up the pouch and then asked us for our mobile phones.
Speaker 4:Oh, so our phones of us put it into the zip pouch and when and put it away. And he, he said in our restaurant we don't allow friends on the table because you need to be present. I Don't wow. Wow, I was like that is crazy, but yeah.
Speaker 2:I kind of love that. Like part of me is like, but what a? But? I love that because how often do you sit in a restaurant or cafe or wherever and actually just look around how many screens are up?
Speaker 4:Yeah, people's faces and he was like we don't need people to take photos of our food.
Speaker 2:Was it? Was it pretty food?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's clever See what the reviews on that Wouldn't be in the moment.
Speaker 2:Well, I haven't got your phone.
Speaker 4:Let's just say I've been trying to get into that restaurant. For the past like three trips since January that we've been down there and I could not get in. I had to book in advance. I couldn't even find the door because it wasn't even signed and it was packed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, wow, what a unique experience very unique.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's cool, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:I love that. One thing that struck me and you know it's probably every person's and in particular, I think, women around you know confidence and being who we are and then only knowing you the last couple years you did bodybuilding, yeah, so can you maybe I kind of look, going okay, where the confidence building is. Suddenly You're standing in a bikini like this strong woman doing bodybuilding. Like where did that all come from? And tell us, what did you learn about yourself?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it was a crazy journey. Look, I Don't know why I did it actually. No, I do. I I've always been into fitness. I like going to the gym, I like exercising and I follow a lot of influences on social media. And there was this one Fitness organization that I follow and I was like, wow, look at those transformations. Like they're crazy. Those women are, you know, moms like me, and now they're on stage. I was like, wow, how does that even happen? And I followed for quite a long time and Then I decided one day they had like a, I know, a 10 week challenge.
Speaker 4:I decided to do it and I was like, give this a go anyway. I Did the 10 weeks and at the end of the 10 weeks they announced the winner of the I guess the transformate, the biggest charm, transformation. And the next minute my name was read out and I was like this is just a little bit crazy because I didn't really lose any weight. But then he spoke about like I guess, body composition and things like that, and I was like, oh, maybe I can do this. Anyway, I won Person six months of personal training with Becky Lou, one of the trainers, and I was like, oh, okay, I'll do this. And she was like oh, do you want to compete? And I was like oh, no, no, I'm way too old for that.
Speaker 4:And bodybuilding, you know, has this image that it's for the young, it's for people in their 20s who are gorgeous and slim and, you know, go to the gym probably three hours a day and I definitely don't do that all have the time. Anyway, she was like I really think you should do it. And I was like look, I am happy for you to train me, like I am gonna go on stage, but I don't think I am, because I'm in my 40s and I've got kids. And she's like so. And I was like okay, so just train me. So she trained me. So this was back in 2021. She trained me for 10 months and, anyway, she convinced me to register. No, but I didn't register for just one. I registered for four federations Because I'm an overachiever.
Speaker 2:I'm not gonna do it, but definitely don't just sign it for one letter at a time, I don't know why.
Speaker 4:After I did it, I had, like that, you know, that really weird feeling of, oh my gosh, what are you doing? How much money have you just spent registering? You know you can't do this. You're a mom, you're in your 40s, you work. This is just crazy, anyway.
Speaker 4:So I went for all the fittings, for the bikinis and swimsuit and I just was like out of my element. I felt really, I'm quite a, I'm quite a shy person, although I come across like I'm not and I think that's my age and confidence coming out. But I am quite shy around people that I don't know and I was like I don't even know how I'm gonna do this. Anyway, I, you know, I trained hard and I there were definitely times where I just wanted to have multiple cheeseburgers and sit on the couch and eat chocolate, for sure. But I was committed and when I'm committed and when I'm focused, because I'm such an achiever, I will go after something. And it goes back to my sort of Mindset of if I want something, I'm gonna have it and I'm gonna go after it and no one's gonna tell me that I can't do it. So I Worked out that, I worked during the day and I'm not a morning person. So I thought, well, I would come home, I'd go the gym for an hour and a half every night between 7 and sort of 8 30, and then after that I'd walk down, go down to the manly Esplanade and do my 10,000 steps. So I was doing this seven days a week.
Speaker 4:Wow, and not all. I wasn't doing any cardio, so it was all just heavy lifting weights to the point of I was lifting double my body weight and you know, I felt pretty good when I was in the gym and there were these guys lifting weights. I can lift that too.
Speaker 2:And you're, I mean it's. People might have to go back and have a look at the cover photo Now when they're listening, because obviously strong, but you're very petite, yeah, woman. So they would not be, they would not be expecting that.
Speaker 4:When they look at you, they're probably thinking she probably is gonna lift two kilos, but you know I was well, I was hip thrusting probably about a hundred and sixty kilos and I weigh 52 at the time. So oh, my goodness, um, you know your body can do a lot when you train it. And also it's about mindset, it's about thinking about those muscles and and lifting through those. But you know, the journey was an incredible journey. I learned a lot about Just being healthy and living a different lifestyle. You know, a lot of social media there's a lot of. I think there's a lot of misconception out there around different types of diets and fads and fasting and and I think the problem is is that people see it and they think, oh, I can do that, it fits me. But in reality we're all unique and we need to find what works for us.
Speaker 4:You know, there were times I was going to work and my colleague Julie was like I can't believe you're eating again. And I was just literally eating all the time, because when you start to fuel your body with good food and I was making and like all fresh foods. So I've learned how to eat macros, but eat lots of food and stay within my macros, but I was just constantly eating but I was burning. So my body was getting all this good nutrition and I was fueling my body. But then I was building muscle and I was, I guess, shocked at what my back, how I could, like you could see all the different muscles in my back I was like, wow, this is incredible. But yeah, the journey was hard and obviously having kids, it was trying to balance all of that. When I went on stage for the first time I'm not going to lie to you I wanted to walk back off that stage. I was in barely anything. I had a spray tan on. My children thought I looked strange because I was so brown.
Speaker 2:I think when you talk about on stage spray tan like their next level spray tan I was.
Speaker 4:My daughter, like, kept looking at me because she thought I was very strong. I was and I'm white, so going from my color to a spray tan was pretty, pretty incredible. But walking on stage for the first time, my knees were shaking. I thought I was going to collapse. I had sweat running down my body. I could barely hold a pose because I was shaking. I was meant to be smiling because I obviously was meant to be enjoying this moment, but I was struggling to get a smile out because I was concentrating, thinking so hard. But then I walked off stage and that adrenaline just hit, hit me, and of course, I was nervous every time I went back on stage. But I went through.
Speaker 4:Four federations came out with over 12 placings, first to fourth Wow, competing, you know, for my first time in this category. I was stoked because I didn't do it, because I wanted to be on stage to show. It was something that I was like. Well, I want to show myself that I can be just as good, and then I can be a mom and I can work full time and have everything, and that's what got me through it.
Speaker 2:So great.
Speaker 4:Are you still doing any of it now? Well, I did want to, but with the travel at the moment, no, I do still go to the. I have structured my life so that I can still have a bit of it. So I go to the gym. I probably go four times a week. I try to walk a lot. I still meal prep. So every Sunday I meal prep. I meal prep my dinners, my lunches, obviously the family, the dinners as well. But by meal prepping I feel less chaotic.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so, it's created a bit of structure in my life and it enables me to eat amazing food. So I still I'm not currently competing. It's in the back of my mind. Maybe one day again.
Speaker 3:Oh, I know you're putting it out there there's a little pilot like booing, I know I mean there is a there is a dolphins and you know that's just an adrenaline that runs through you when you do something like that that's crazy, and just that sense of satisfaction and what's possible, oh yeah.
Speaker 4:To see your body transform. I think you we don't realize how great our bodies are. Our bodies do, especially as females. We have children, you know they go through so much, but they're our bodies are incredible what we can train them to do, and a lot of it starts with our mind and having that positive mindset.
Speaker 2:So what do you do for your mind Like, have you got daily rituals these days? How do you, how do you keep that positivity?
Speaker 4:It's funny because last week at the Ignite conference, I was listening to the amazing speakers think, and I can't remember the lady and she spoke about how she wakes up every morning and yeah, and I don't have any. I mean, I've tried lots of different methods but I haven't quite stuck to anything. I think I just wake up and lie there for a few minutes and I think about how grateful I am and that kind of gets me going. I think I'm naturally a positive person. I naturally have a lot of energy to give. I mean, that can also drain very quickly as well. Yeah, but I don't have any rituals and I really actually want some, and maybe this is the year for that. Yeah, yeah, okay, but I do definitely want to focus on something I did actually work for Michael Hill back in the day and him Michael Hill himself was very big, or mantras, and he would stand up on our conference stage and do we'd all have to close our eyes, like 250 people in a room closing our eyes while we did a mantra.
Speaker 4:You know he kind of he was an inspiring leader and at the age of when he made that business successful, I think you know he lived an amazing life of being healthy and and having a really holistic view on life, and I think that comes always back to having some core rituals that you live by and you look at successful people in life. A lot of them have that.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, it's so common. Yeah, maybe you have them without. I might actually even when you're saying about meal prep, like that's, it's maybe not a mindset, but in a way it is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was going to call bullshit on the rich, absolutely from. From the things you described, you know you're talking about going down to Manly and doing 10,000 steps, or doing gym four days a week, or meal prepping on Sunday. They are absolutely those things. Maybe not clearly defined in a 24 hour period and then they don't you know, anchor the morning and finish the day with, but they are absolutely those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then they're not spiritual.
Speaker 3:You know, I think that's what it is, the conventional, I think it's a, you know it's a kind of from a spiritual standpoint. You know I meditate every day and that's the first thing I do when I wake up, and if I don't do that I'm a bit shit for the rest of the day Actually like I'm a good version of myself.
Speaker 3:But then there are other aspects to the thing that make up my toolkit which don't have to be daily, like it's important to still have them. Yeah, I've noticed that kind of through my own journey in the last couple of years. It's important to still have them, they just don't have to be daily.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But there will be something in there. I'm kind of guaranteed almost there'll be something in there. That is part of that day and it could be that three minutes in the morning it could be. When you lie there and you think about kind of what the day is and the intention setting, if you will in terms of the attitude that you choose and how you want to show up, and that's exactly that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I know that one of my morning rituals is going to the local coffee shop and seeing Kylie and getting my coffee. And this morning I went there, actually, and she's I've got a present for you. And I was like, oh, and she's like I've got a bacon and egg wrap for you. I know you've been wanting to try one of these and it was an over order and I was like, okay, this is amazing. But she puts a smile on my face and like that morning coffee is part of my definitely part of my morning ritual and I love that because it's like the connection.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, and it's the energy and the people, yeah. And it makes me smile, it's like.
Speaker 2:it's like my cup of you know, a cup of tea, a reasonable warning, the caffeine and happiness all in one. I feel like when you talk about those things, for me it's also hugs in the morning. Yeah, that is oh the hugs I have with Chloe and the giggles we have and the different. Yeah, that to me is like such a rush of emotion and, yeah, it's a beautiful energy. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Without a doubt.
Speaker 2:So good. So, amanda, I'm wondering, when we think about lead with courage, where, in your last, say, 10 years or whatever, springs to mind, what are the times where you've really had to dig into finding courage and being brave, and what comes to mind?
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's a good question. Look, there was a moment in my well there's been many moments, but I think about just after my mom passed away. Actually, it was about 2000 and 2013. I was in a role and I worked for an amazing organization, but I was in a place in my life where I was going to work every day and I'd worked for this business for over six years but I was going to work every day with a negative mindset and I think I was a terrible person to be around. No one said that to me, but I felt that way. I was like who wants to hang out with me when all I'm doing is whining or complaining about my work? And I really took a step back at that point and decided that I needed to change who I was and I needed to be brave and courageous and I needed to make a decision. I either needed to essentially snap out of it and come to work with a positive view and get out of this rut that I was in, or I needed to leave that role and look for something different. And when you're working full time and you're used to having that money come in and you've got a mortgage and responsibilities, it's a big decision. But I could not get myself out of that rut. But I was able to recognise it, which I think was the first step.
Speaker 4:But I decided to leave that organization and it was scary. I didn't have a job to go to, I had no plans. I knew I wanted to be in the space that I'm in now, but I really had no idea. But I couldn't find the pathway whilst I was in that job because I was so blinded by this smoke of negativity.
Speaker 4:And so when I left there and took that leap I had about, I think, two and a half months off and just really found myself, I found who I was as a person and I reconnected with myself and stopped kind of beating myself up which for some reason, I'd got into that space. And maybe that was linked to the circumstances with my mom, I'm not sure, but I think the circumstance with my mom gave me the power to kind of make this step. I don't think I would have made that step if she was still around, because I think I would have just sat in where it was comfortable. I'm a big believer that sometimes you have to get out of that comfort zone. Actually, you need to get out of that comfort zone a lot to be able to grow. And I did it. And where I am today, I wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't make that bold step back then.
Speaker 2:Yes, I can really relate and whether it's relationships or jobs, and so many times over the years I've seen so many people desperately unhappy or negative in their roles and I just kind of sit there and go. Why do we bother with that? Because it does take a lot of courage and bravery to step out and risk because of money, circumstance, what's going to be next If we're that unhappy somewhere. Sometimes you need to slap across the face or a big moment to see it or a friend to help. You see it.
Speaker 2:But I just for too many of us. I think we're not conscious enough of how those scenarios are impacting us.
Speaker 4:That's it. And I see it obviously from a people perspective, because we have, you know, in any organisation I've worked for, you have people who you performance manage out of a business, and a lot of the times it's just because they've got a bad attitude. And I'm kind of like you know, I'm a strong believer that when you walk in the door in the morning you need to check yourself and think about well, what aura and vibe are you bringing into the office today? Because if you're not bringing a positive one, then you probably should head back to your car and work from home that day. Yes, Because you're just going to bring everyone else down in that process.
Speaker 2:Yes, and energy is so contagious. I think you shared with me. It was ages ago now, but do you remember that sign you shared with me? Oh, yes, it was at a hospital and it said something. Really, do you remember?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I printed that off. We were thinking about putting that on the door but I'm like, is it a little bit too harsh? But it was something along the lines of it was similar to check yourself and if you're not in check, then you know, walk back out, sort of scenario.
Speaker 2:And it was on the sign at a hospital and it was like saying your energy exactly. Like your energy really matters, like the patients that are in here, the staff that are in here. They're impacted by you. So unless you're bringing the energy worth catching, that's contagious. Like don't come in here, you're not welcome. We both looked at that and we're like, yes, high five, it's so true, so, so true.
Speaker 3:Amanda, don't quite know how to articulate this, so just give me a second. I want to ask about something you touched on before. I can't remember the exact words, but I remember the feeling I had when you spoke about that and that was kind of like you know, achieving things, I guess, and setting goals along the way, but physically in particular, when you kind of break through a barrier and then setting expectations for a new barrier and a new barrier, can you kind of talk to? Have you had a time in your life where you've kind of broken through and then not set other goals? Yeah.
Speaker 3:And just kind of sat with it for a while. And what did you learn from that? What did you learn about yourself and what did that do?
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's. I've got a very recent example of that because we were just talking about my bodybuilding experience. That was an amazing journey. But when you come off that journey it's kind of like you go from a high to a low and I came out of that and went straight into my brand new role of work. So I was kind of caught up in a different. I had a different focus and I was busy.
Speaker 4:But now, probably the last couple of months, I've obviously been in my role a little while now my new role and I'm not doing the bodybuilding on the side and I actually sat back and I was like I don't have that focus anymore. I'm not focused on a goal and I am somebody who needs goals in life. I need to have structure. I am a very structured person. I like to wake up in the morning and go and do something. I'm not somebody who sits on the couch a lot, mind you, I do need that sometimes.
Speaker 4:But a couple of months ago I sat back and realised that I was going to the gym but I was really just not doing a great deal. I was not feeling great about myself. I was feeling really negative about my body image, about who I was. I was feeling disorganized and chaotic in all parts of my life because of not having that structure. So I sat back and I was like, well, only one person can do something about that and that is me.
Speaker 4:So I reached out to a lovely lady who has her own fitness business so a different one to where I had worked with before and I just said I need you essentially to tell me what to do. I don't have any more brain capacity and I need to get back onto this road of having structure in my life. But I need you to tell me what that looks like. I need you to tell me how many times you want me to go to the gym. I need you to tell me what to eat every day, and I don't care what that is. You just tell me what to eat and I'll eat exactly what you tell me to eat. But I just need some structure where I don't have to think and I'm on that journey now and I'm feeling amazing because I have that structure. But I needed somebody to give it to me at the moment because go back to 2021. I wasn't in the role that I'm in. I had more brain capacity right now.
Speaker 4:I just don't feel like I have the space to focus on that, but that is a big part of my life. I love fitness, I love educating my children on it and I love being on about and I love feeling strong mentally and physically. That's a very recent moment where I was like I need to do something about this and I need to do something now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so profound, I think, that trigger or listening to your body in that way or listening to your mind in that way, where it sort of sits here and you think, yeah, okay, there's something a bit out of whack, there's something not quite right, and I need to look at that and then sort of finding that tribe, finding that person, finding whoever that is to sort of just help you course correct slightly to get to where you need to go, just piggybacking on that as well. Do you have other? What other mentors do you have? And what is your tribe, your challenge tribe? To borrow a term from midnight last week, what does that look like for?
Speaker 4:you. Yeah, I've worked for some really inspiring leaders over my career and there's a couple in particular who I'm still connected with, who I worked quite closely with 10 years ago, and I don't, I guess, necessarily talk to them, but I follow them on social media, obviously on LinkedIn. Whenever I need anything, I just reach out and they're always there for me. In terms of my personal life, I have a small family. I don't have a lot of, I guess, a large family unit, but I have a lot of friends and to me, I have some really core friends that I call family. They don't have to be blood to be family. I think they're the people that, like, anchor me and ground me. They're the people that are there when I need to share something.
Speaker 4:I'm not a very open person, I don't talk about my life a lot, I'm quite a personal person, but these are the ladies in my life where they don't expect me to be there and show up every single girl's night out, but they're there for me and they motivate me and inspire me in different ways. I think I have those two pockets in my life. I have that sort of personal space where those ladies ground me and they inspire me, and just to be who I am and be grateful for every day. Then I have the people that I work with who inspire me in a different way. I've always broken my life up into two different parts. There's always that personal part and that work part. I'm very good at compa, like putting them into little boxes the compartment.
Speaker 4:I don't know why I just do it that way, but that would probably be who I would say would be the people that I look up to, I'm kind of inspired by, because I think they're great in what they do and I think I can learn from other people as well.
Speaker 2:Beautiful Amanda. What I might do is just shift gears ever so slightly, because I think the knowledge and experience you have from a people perspective in an organization is really valuable for our listeners. What are the kind of current trends that people are talking about? What are the concerns that are happening in the market, in your workplace generically, not just at home instead?
Speaker 4:Yeah, look, I think at the moment, wellness of employees is probably a very big topic. A lot of organizations are struggling to engage and keep employees. At the end of the day, we want our employees to be happy they spend more time at work than they spend anywhere else. But it is a real challenge. I think COVID really threw a spanner into the way that businesses operate with regards to hybrid working, which also then enters into that wellness and that mental health. Right, because when people are working from home constantly and they have no interaction, yeah, that might be great for a period of time, but people need to be around people. That's how we're made. We need to interact. That's where great conversations happen within businesses as well.
Speaker 4:I think it's a real challenge at the moment for many organizations. I have a lot of friends who are in similar roles to me in big corporates. It's a struggle. They're trying to get their employees back to work. Right now, we luckily didn't go at that far, to the extreme, of having people work from home full-time. We've always had more of an ad hoc working flexibility. We've moved into a hybrid working model now, which I think is working really well, but I still think there's a really big challenge for businesses right now in terms of how do we create a real holistic approach to caring for our people, from wellness to just general wellness like yoga or meditation or education around that space. But that mental health is a very big topic at the moment. I think there's a lot of people struggling with it and a lot of people that struggle in the dark with it and they don't talk about it. I think businesses need to take more responsibility and put that at the forefront of our people's strategies. It is a big part of my people's strategy in terms of that retention of our people.
Speaker 4:We have, at home instead, over 11,000 employees across our six countries. The large percentage of that are remote workers. How hard is it to connect and engage with remote workers? Very challenging, because when I work in an office every day, I can put a little chocolate on someone's desk or I can give them my energy through just chatting with them, or I can buy them a coffee or tell them how great they are in person. But some of our carers they might have no interaction with the office for 12 months because they just get their schedule online. They could work two hours. They could live two hours away from the office. It is a really big challenge. Right now I don't have the solution, but I do think it's about, from a people's strategy and people's perspective every organisation should be focused on. How do we provide a holistic approach to caring, engaging our people so that, yes, they want to stay here, but we're also actually caring about who they are as people. That has to be at the forefront.
Speaker 2:It's so tricky. I think there's some of the conversations we're having with some of our clients, but also I'm on a mastermind like business owner program at the moment. It's one of the conversations we've been having as business owners, especially those are a bit larger than us, than a team of four. It's just that balance of sometimes what employees are looking for versus what employers can offer. I want to work part-time or I want to work these limited hours because it's better for my mental health and from a well-being perspective I'm like, yep, I get that. Then, from the business perspective, well, we need someone to do the job. That's right, Because at the moment people are maybe struggling to find great people. From an employer standpoint, it's quite a tug of war.
Speaker 4:The talent market is really short Across the six countries that we operate in, it is hard to recruit great people. It is really challenging right now when we go to market to recruit an executive role or a manager role or a key player like an office level role. We could be on the market for eight weeks. We could do a lot of interviews, but for us as a business, our number one focus is that cultural fit. I think that's one of the hardest pieces that we struggle with, because we could probably recruit a lot of people technically, but from a cultural perspective, we want people that align to our values and our purpose. We want them to come to work with that positivity and we want them to love what they do. This isn't just a job. This is a really important job. We look after our seniors within our organization, within our communities.
Speaker 4:I think cultural fits a real challenge at the moment because of that misalignment between, sometimes, what employees want and what employers are willing to offer or what we can offer.
Speaker 2:Yes, to still run a sustainable business, but also you want the best people. It's a bit of a dance. It is very challenging. Can you tell me? Because one thing I hear a lot from people is oh, we've got great culture or our culture, which I think that's what we do as well is helping people with their culture.
Speaker 2:So I'm all for it. When it comes to defining your culture, or when you've just mentioned about values and purpose, how do you practically bring that to life? Because I think a lot of people go, yeah, we've got this great culture, but when you ask them to put on a piece of paper, what is that? How do you define it? What are those words? It's not always something people can articulate, so how do you practically bring that?
Speaker 4:to life. It is really hard to describe because when I interview, I talk about our culture and people are like, well, what is your culture? And I'm like, well, that's a really good question, but for us it's about being genuine. It's about coming to workers and bringing your best self and who you are as the best version of you, because I think when everyone brings their best version, then we have an amazing culture. It's a culture that's led by everybody, and we spoke about this at our conference last year when you were a guest speaker.
Speaker 4:Culture is something that I think every business needs to focus on right now, because that's why you have turnover when you have bad culture. But culture is sometimes the responsibility of it, I think, is put on the leadership team only, and I agree with that to some degree. The leadership team need to own and lead that culture, but it's every single person that comes to that organization that has a part to play, and when we don't come to work and own our part in the culture, then we won't have great culture, and so, therefore, everyone needs to come to work with that positive view on their day, and we also all need to be transparent. We need to support each other, and one of the biggest things that I focus on right now is that vulnerability, because, as leaders, one of the things that I'm coaching and taking our leaders through at home instead in our group, is that if we want to be great leaders, we need to be vulnerable.
Speaker 4:We need to show that we're human, and I was probably on this journey, maybe 18 months ago, where I'm a very private person, I don't share a lot of work and people probably didn't even realize I had children because I just don't talk about my personal life.
Speaker 4:But then I realized that I was being a bit of an ice queen to a degree and I needed to start showing that I'm actually human too and I actually have feelings. And when I started to show that more, I had a different relationship with my team and they understood me from a different perspective, that I'm actually a mum too, and sometimes I need to leave here at two o'clock and I think so. Therefore, when we create that vulnerability and we have leaders that lead with it, it creates a completely different workplace, and I feel we're in a place right now which is different to when you presented at our conference in November last year. We've come a very long way, and we've done that through leading with courage, leading with vulnerability and being human and showing a lot of empathy, and that's what's changing our culture right now Beautiful, and there's so much strength in that it's actually harder.
Speaker 2:I believe takes more energy and more courage and bravery to show up to lead that way than it does to just kind of bring the wall up and go. Nope, that's my personal life, this is my work life and yeah yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's definitely, yeah, very different workplace to where we were 12 months ago, and it's that change in mindset.
Speaker 2:And we've got to remember it, and it sounds to me that you've also led by example with that when you say you know you've started first, because we can't ask. Whilst culture is everyone's responsibility, we can't ask people to do things that we're not displaying and modeling. That's it, and it's taking that.
Speaker 4:you know that ultimate responsibility. So in a business, as a leader, you know I have to be okay with going Oops or oh, you know crap. I did that. I made a mistake, yes, but letting my team see that I actually own that and go. Oh well, we can. We can fix that. There's always a solution, because then they're going to be brave enough to take on challenges, right.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:And they're not going to be fearful of making mistakes, and when you have that environment where people they're not scared to go and try something, that's when you get great teams as well, yeah, and it's a psychological safety isn't it?
Speaker 2:When they've got that psychological safety, then people take better risks to innovate, to create something new, to take more ownership. And yeah, it only just builds the right culture and the right set of behaviors.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but I don't actually think I have a definition for culture besides that very long story that I gave you. No, that's beautiful. I thought that was bang on.
Speaker 3:I kind of, in my mind I'm going from the Amanda I met today, amanda and the self-diagnosed version of Amanda the Ice Queen, to Amanda, the you know showing a bit of vulnerability in the office. Could you maybe give, probably just for my benefit, I'm sure our listeners and Cherie probably knows exactly what you're talking about. But what exactly does that look like in a you know? On this week I sort of noticed for myself that I was, you know, kind of bringing X, y and Z and then the following week OK, then I'll go and make this change and then how that would actually filter through to your team.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so you're referring to, like the Ice Queen, to the vulnerable? Yeah, yeah, look, I think you know with, with, still authenticity.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think the way I'm made up, I'm because I'm very focused on achieving I can be very, I guess, blindsided, and it can be very narrow, like I can just be focused on the goal at the end of the day and I can forget about other people around me and forget about their feelings. So I have to work really hard in terms of expanding that and being compassionate and and bringing people on the journey, but also showing who I am as a person and that vulnerability side and being really genuine. And it's not that I am not a genuine person or I'm not vulnerable or compassionate, it's just that when you get caught up and you're really, really busy, you just go, go, go, go go, and so therefore people's perception of you is like, oh, she could, like that's why I refer to myself sometimes as an ice queen, because I'm like I'm just so focused that people probably don't know who I am because I'm literally just running all the time, and also because I don't share who I am, like I'm not an open person and that's maybe rightly wrong or right, I'm not really sure but I kind of like to keep my personal life personal, because it's my way of kind of protecting that little part of my life. But one of the things I've learned is, when I've been in those sort of moments where I've been so busy and focused, I just, from other people's perceptions, I just don't think they see me as being the warm person that I know that I can be, whereas when I turn the switch and then I start to think more about other people around me and, yeah, still focused on that goal, but slow down a bit, amanda, taking every day, be present, you know, stop at the water cooler and have a conversation. You know, let's just not run around like a crazy woman which I can sometimes do because I'm just so focused have a conversation about life and be more human at that point, and that's, I think, the difference between this day and this day is.
Speaker 4:In the past I just I just run around and I'm just busy, whereas now I'm still busy and I run around, but I'm really conscious of making sure that I'm connecting with people.
Speaker 4:And when I'm at that water cooler I know that I've got to get back to that email, but I'm like just be in the moment and listen and have that conversation, cause you know, I can sit in my office and my door's like a revolving door and I'm like I just need to finish that email.
Speaker 4:And in the past I would have been like, okay, I've got to go, I want to have that email, whereas now I sit there and I've got my hands on the water cooler, I've got my hands on the table. I'm like I just need to finish that email, but I'm not going to let that person know. I'm going to give them the time that they need, because they came to see me for a reason and they want to ask me a question or they they need something and I need to give and be kind and I need to give some of my time to people. Um, but I've also got to be protective of that too, because sometimes I give too much and then I don't have any time for myself. So sometimes I can go too far one way and then I end up paying for that myself, I feel like you might just be describing me to me.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh wow, this is really resonating Like when you've got that task focus of these are the things we've got to do. And then I sometimes feel like I get, I get into that zone too. I'm like, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, yeah. And then other times I'm so present in the moment where I go, oh, it's two hours. We only had a half now because I'm so into it with you. And then, oops, okay, because I just want to be there with someone. And then who suffers is me every time yeah.
Speaker 2:Because then I don't, yeah, prioritize, yeah. Well, what you just said really resonates to me.
Speaker 4:Because I'm very big, like that, people will come in like I've just got a 10 minute question and literally the same thing. Two hours later I'm having a conversation a really a really engaging conversation about something Um, and they've walked away really quickly. But I'm like oh man, I've just lost two hours out of my day, yes, yes, and in that moment for that person it's worth it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but where am I finding that time?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's not always what's the question. I think it's in the coaching habit book. If I say yes to this, what am I saying no to?
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:I have to keep reminding myself of that question.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 3:Have you had any success with um boundaries or what? When I say boundaries, what, what does that kind of trigger in you? What does that instill in?
Speaker 4:you yeah, boundaries in a work environment, um, I probably need to start putting more boundaries in place. So one of the things that I've actually started doing at the end of last year was blocking out at the beginning, like my day, so from seven to nine, no one can put anything in my calendar. And then because that's when I dropped my kids off, um and this was actually a direction from my group CEO Um, he said you're not allowed to come to work before nine AM. And I thought he was joking at first. And then he kept saying, and I was like do you actually don't want me to come to work before nine? He's like, yeah, because you need to get a balance, you need to have boundaries. You can't just come here all the time. You've got a family.
Speaker 4:And so I started to block that out in my calendar so that people couldn't put anything in my diary. And so now I go to work every day at nine, I drop, I get up in the morning, I take my kids to have, we have coffee, they've hot chocolate, obviously not coffee, um, and then I drop them at work and I've dropped them at school, and then I go to work, Um, and then I do the same thing in the afternoon. I block out bits in the afternoon to create work boundaries so that I can have that balance, because people will just populate your calendar especially with different time zones, because that seven to nine on that evening time zone that's a very different part of the day.
Speaker 4:That's exactly right and I you know am a yes person, which is sometimes not great for boundaries, so I would be like yes, not a problem, I'll do that, and I have probably my first four months in this role. I was literally working probably four nights of the week, and one of those nights was a Friday night to like maybe eight or nine people, because that's Friday morning, europe time.
Speaker 4:So I'm like yeah sure, no worries, I'll do that meeting because I'm really conscientious and I'm a, you know, a high chiever and I'm like I just want to make everybody happy. But then I realized that in doing so I was not looking after my best interests and I was just working all the time, and so I had to put some boundaries into place because I was just becoming a bit of a workaholic. And my the owner of the company and my boss, he is very big on work life balance and he actually said to me the other day you know, it's okay to sit there and not have anything to do. And I was like that's very strange. Sure, because I'm such an operational person, I'm so used to going and doing.
Speaker 4:He's like why don't you just like go to the beach one day and just sit there and think? And I was like think about what he's like, see, just think. Because sometimes, when you give yourself space to think in an environment where people can't disrupt you, great things happen and creativity happens. And I was like that's a very good point. Now I haven't gone to the beach yet to do that.
Speaker 2:Have you watched the Bluey episode? What's it called? Probably beach?
Speaker 3:Relax, there's a few on the beach, yeah the relax where Chilly's like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, bluey right.
Speaker 4:No, this is the funny thing, right? Everyone talks about Bluey, but my kids have not got into it, and nor have I.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness. Well, if there's anything you can take away from this conversation, please go and watch Bluey.
Speaker 4:How old are your kids? Nine and a half and five, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, what are you doing to them?
Speaker 4:People keep saying this to me. I was like I need to get into this.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, yeah, quite sincerely, it is a phenomenal show. There's an episode where the mum Chilly, they're going on a holiday to the beach and she's hot, but it's basically what you've just said about like, but I need to go and relax, I need to go and have, but what do I do when I get there? And then you know, it's just, it's a, it's a beautiful episode.
Speaker 2:I need to watch that it is. It is seriously one of the greatest shows. Andy, you often talk about the dad on their bandit. Like he's your, like the role model of how to parent, like it really is a phenomenal show.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he kind of. You know, he just has fun, and so for me that's a good reminder not to be in task mode all the time. I love completing tasks like you've never seen anyone before, and which is great most of the time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's good for the efficiency of maybe have what I deem as success in life, but then being present or being available or being in the moment is is quite often a challenge for me. So so then, yeah, sort of see the way bandit does it, for example, and then you know it's like, ok, that's how we could do that. All right, good to know.
Speaker 2:Would it be really weird. You're flying over to Europe soon like download all of these flu episodes. Not traveling with kids, we're just like, oh no, I've just got to catch up on some TV, all these seven minute episodes. I'll send you a photo. Yeah, no, kidding, I'll tell you which ones to put in the order. No, so good, but yeah, it's so important, isn't it? I think we were literally talking about relaunch, you know, for Ignite 24. Now you have only just I want a table. Oh, excellent, well, it's on record now. But you know, we're just getting over this one.
Speaker 2:Ok, what's next for next year? And we were saying to do our launch or, you know, to come together and do some planning. Yeah, it's got to be out of the office, we've got to go somewhere where there's in in the bush, you know, at a resort, somewhere or by the beach, but somewhere. Yeah, that creativity, that open space and nature, because it's just a different energy and it just opens up your mind. And you're not when we're sitting at the desk, it's very much. Oh, here's a computer, he's the task list Like no, no, just the freedom of it all.
Speaker 4:That's it and we've organised Well. At the end of September we've got our leadership summer, so our very first one, which is our four CEOs from our four largest countries, and then our ELT, so executive leadership team, so there's 10 of us in total and we're going to Austria, which is obviously near our Switzerland office. So the whole point of that week is to get everybody out of the country, is out of their offices, that we can start to talk about growth, talk about this business and our people, because if we want to lead this, this company, we need to do it by strategically coming together and collaborating and working out how we're going to work together. And how do we? How do we do this as a team? And unfortunately, when you're like, spread across so many countries, you're just doing everything by teams, which is great, but it doesn't. You need that face to face contact. You need to go away, you need to plan, you do.
Speaker 2:And I reckon that's been a gift from COVID One, knowing sometimes actually you can just do things remotely. And there's a lot more efficiencies from that and the power of being in a room together and I think a lot of the workshops will do now it's. It's so, so energising to be with people who say, oh, we haven't met one another. You know, maybe a year or two ago.
Speaker 2:We haven't met one another, we hadn't done this, and now that intentionally stepping out of the business something we used to do at Flight Centre often a lot like actually like almost like maybe we need to be in the business. No, no, but it was. It was quite a regular cadence and it works very successfully.
Speaker 4:You need it, though, because to have great working relationships, you have to know people and it comes back to that genuine, you know that vulnerability and actually understanding who that person is on the other end of the team's call. But you can only get that by coming together and it needs there needs to be regular cadence. So it's actually there's a whole session in our leadership conference over cadences. How are we going to do this going forward? How often are we going to meet face to face? How are we going to do it over teams?
Speaker 2:Because you need to have that structure in place, you do, and then people prioritise it, and whether that's a global ELT and CEOs, whether that's, you know, within Australia, whatever, it may be, but I think by putting that structure in the calendar, people then plan around it.
Speaker 2:But if we don't have it, we go oh, my, like now, like we're almost at September, yeah, how early Christmas. How is it almost a year since your conference? You know it's mind blowing, it is. So if we don't have that plan, yeah, it doesn't happen, that's right. But actually orchestrating those intentional gatherings is critical and the intention or the purpose of the gathering about building connection, that's it rather than, yes, also strategic planning. But it's, it's more than just the plans and the task.
Speaker 2:Yeah like, how do we have the dinners together? How do? We go on a long hike together. How do we do these things? Because they are bonds that you can't undo.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and it's funny you mentioned hike, because this whole week, every day, is only four hours of work in a meeting room and the other four hours is either a hike, a toboggan thing, some sort of toboggan thing, mountain bike riding that's all outdoors and the combination of that social conversations that happen whilst you're hiking. I don't know if there's going to be a lot of conversations, might be out of breath, but you know there's those conversations, that or the drink at the end of the hike or the dinner on the tree, you know it's that combination that makes great I guess great great working relationships and teams.
Speaker 2:It really does, and I think it pushes us out of comfort zone too, because it's like I've recalled from a few years ago.
Speaker 2:we used to do similar things. I remember every area leader in Flight Centre Australia. We all did a half marathon in Melbourne and I did it. I walked pretty much the whole way. But I did a half marathon and I swear between me and two other colleagues we were the last people to cross the line in the MCG. But that doesn't matter, we still did it. But it was that bonding like the lead up together to have that experience together the next few days. So, so powerful. And that was a long, long time ago and you still talk about it and still remember it.
Speaker 2:So those moments, yeah, they're so powerful, very, so good to wrap us up. And then I feel like, well, I know you and I could just keep going for hours here. We've already spoken about our issues with boundaries and engaging in conversation. But to finish off, there's one question we always love to ask people, and that is what is one of the kindest things someone has done for you.
Speaker 4:I was thinking about this on the weekend, like we were talking about earlier today, because I think there's a lot of people that have been kind to me over my life, but one person that stood out the most is actually my auntie, and probably bringing back to the story that I spoke about about my mum, she remembers every moment and milestone that my mum would have shared with me, and so when it's my mum's birthday or it's mother's day, or it was the date of my mum's passing, she will always send me a message or there'll be a phone call or there'll be a gift of some description.
Speaker 4:And she does that because you know she wants to be there for me, and the first year that she did that, I was like wow, I can't believe you're. You're doing this Like you remember those little moments that are important to me when I'm waking up feeling a little bit not so good about the day Because I'm feeling sad, but you put a smile on my face, but the thing is she's continued it. So those that kindness is not just one random act of kindness, it's something that is now part of my life. How beautiful. And it's not always expected. Sometimes it's a random thing that she'll do. That just reminds me that she's there looking after me. Oh that is so beautiful.
Speaker 2:That's really precious Thank you, and it's really not lost to me that you said that you don't always share that, those personal sides, and there's been so much that you've shared today, so I really want to say thank you. You bring so much joy and light to any space you're in and I feel so privileged that we've had this opportunity to have you on the podcast and that our paths crossed in life and, yes, so thank you so much for everything today.
Speaker 4:Thank you. Thank you for having me, and I'm so glad that our paths have crossed, because your energy is just crazy. I love it Right back at you.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much.
Speaker 4:Thanks.
Speaker 2:Amanda. Thank you Bye.
Speaker 2:Thanks for joining us on the Lead with Courage podcast. We illuminate leadership and it's our mission to inspire and grow the leaders of today to create a better tomorrow. We hope and trust that this episode has given you some insights and joy to empower you to live your biggest, best life. If you did enjoy the episode, we'd be so grateful for you to rate and share wherever you listen to this podcast. And until next time, go and lead with courage. Luminate leadership is not a licensed mental health service or a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. Any conversation in this podcast is general in nature and if you're struggling, please see a healthcare professional or call Lifeline on 13-11-14.
