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Lead with Courage
Together with your hosts Cherie and Andy Canning, you'll dive into the minds of the trailblazers, the risk takers and those who embrace life with a growth mindset .
Get ready for real and raw conversations where authentic truths are revealed, uncovering the struggles and resilience required to bounce back.
We invite you to see this podcast as your compass to embracing your own courage to live your biggest, best life!
Lead with Courage
Carlo Novak | A Life Worth Living | Lead with Courage
We have the incredible pleasure of introducing Carlo Novak to Lead with Courage podcast.
Carlo is a former professional athlete, has served in the military as a solider, been a paramedic, and is now a franchise owner in Hobart with Studio Pilates.
Carlo is a lover of life. But it wasn't always that way.
Carlo talks about this experience with depression and his journey of post-traumatic growth. He takes us through his path of spiritual transformation, detailing how his faith helped him break free from the cycle of depression.
Carlo's story is a celebration of courage, resilience and healing.
Please note, through this episode with Carlo we discuss some mental health themes including depression and suicide, and as always encourage please take care when listening, and if it's any way triggering, then please take a break, and seek out help from a mental health professional.
Carlo Novak Instagram
Carlo Novak & Studio Pilates
Studio Pilates
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Thanks for joining us on the Lead with Courage podcast, bought to you by Luminate Leadership. We trust this episode has given you some insights and joy to empower you live your biggest, best life.
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Until the next episode, we hope you live and Lead with Courage!
Cherie and Andy x
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Luminate Leadership is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14.
Right. Yeah, I think, kala, it's when you know you're building the right community, right, when you speak from the heart and you express these things to people and then they're like, yeah, you've got to look after you and they'll just adjust to the new timetable and yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it, you know, and something that always resonated with me, reading one scripture in particular, like a boast in your weakness, you know. And that was it. Like, you know, because to me, contrary to what the world standards are and what I'd been brought up in, and everything was always like, no, no, come on, dig deep, keep pushing through. But, as I said, I shared with you when we first chatted, like that came at quite a great cost to begin with, you know, my mental and physical health just declined so bad, you know, and I was suffering. But you know, to really then speak, just open and going, man, I'm a human here. I can only do so much.
Speaker 2:The clients were like, yeah, we don't even know how you went. A lot of them actually said that they were all like I don't even know how you've gone this long doing how much you've been doing, like, because you know you're lifting the studio, trying to build that team. It just takes time. It just takes time. But yeah, to boast, not to boast, but yeah, to really just speak open and honest. I'm like, I'm struggling here a bit Now. Family struggling with this. Yeah, the other dynamics. You guys are parents. We've got a little baby in the house. She's only just turned just past one and yeah, so she doesn't sleep the best either. She's a busy girl.
Speaker 3:Oh, you're in the trenches, Carlo.
Speaker 2:We're in the trenches, bro. Yeah, yeah, and you've been in trenches like literally, and metaphorically.
Speaker 1:And you know those. Yeah, oh yeah, awesome. Well, thanks for showing up now and being here and I'm excited to. I'm excited, if for no one else, for Andy to get to know you and your story, because I was just so I'm so inspired by that and, yeah, I was like, oh, andy, you've got to meet Carlo, and also now for the podcast and the listeners in the world that you've got so much to give. So, yeah, thanks for taking the time to be with us.
Speaker 2:Oh man, I mean I've been listening to all the podcasts. You guys have been doing incredible work, like all these amazing inspiring people, but you guys are incredible. I'm so humbled. I can't believe you know like that. You guys wanted to hear my story but, as I said, like I'm more than happy to share and just want to keep spreading that hope, you know, spreading life in the world, yeah, with what you say.
Speaker 1:So anyway, thank you for having me, thank you. Thank you, andy. You've got a bit of a spiel. You usually like to, just so I'm not talking all the time over to you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I do. Hi, carlo, Thanks so much for coming on today. This is not part of the spiel, by the way, but it's just me genuinely saying we're really grateful and touch it. You've agreed to come along. Remember and I'll probably lead with this in the thing too One of the first things that Cherie told me about you is that, like, you've had all the experience you know in the world in terms of being at war, and then you know your own spiritual journey after that, and now you're on a franchise and you've got a family, but your kind of growth mindset, if you like, and your hunger to keep learning and keep growing, is with something that really captivated her.
Speaker 3:And from then on it was kind of like great, well, when we get this podcast up and running so I know that Studio Pilates, queen Sound, that was back in March, right, and we didn't kick off the podcast till June but it was sort of like oh, when we do that, we have to get Carlo on. So thank you, thanks so much for agreeing to come on. I'm excited to have this chat.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me, man. Yeah, and it's great to finally meet you too, mate. I'm looking forward to when we can do it in person as well, yeah likewise Round two, maybe down in Tassie.
Speaker 3:That looks like a pretty good spot where you are right now. Otherwise, some housekeeping side of things will try and go for 45 minutes to an hour, just you know, depending on flow and how deep we get into stuff. Like it is no hard and fast rule from that sort of thing for us, so it's just more of kind of the natural arc of the conversation we go to where we go to. During the course of the conversation you probably hear more from Cherie than you will from me, and it's not that I'm not listening, it's just that I probably process things differently and occasionally, you know, dip in with other questions, for example that Cherie might not so, but in the side from that we're both co-hosts and then any of the. And also if we go anywhere that you don't quite want to go to, for example, then no problem at all.
Speaker 3:You know well, you know I probably not prefer to go there today, and then we just edit that out in the production side of things afterwards. Equally, if you find an answer is not coming to you straight away, don't be afraid to pause. You know you kind of wait five, 10 seconds, whatever it takes. Those things are a lot easier to clean up afterwards. And it is to you know, do. What I do typically is kind of start down a track and then try and navigate around and then try and go full circle. So yeah, don't be afraid to have a pause.
Speaker 1:Have you? Have you been on a few podcasts before? No, no, this is my first one. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, that's why I was like, wow, okay, cool, let's start sharing the story. I mean, I've done public speaking spots and that was, again, was a really humble experience and a big part of my growth as well, because even this, right now, this is me pushing big time into the uncomfortable. I know, as I said, you know, when you ask me, it wasn't. I don't just make a light decision on things. I sit, I talk with my family, I pray about it, we pray as a family. But instantly I was like man, there's nothing bad that can come from this. You know, sharing your life story and, that said, hopefully you can, I can spread some hope into people that might be feeling like they're in those trenches. You know where I've been yeah, love it, yeah, but um, no, I actually had a preparatory sort of session. One of the boys that works in SP, he's the videographer and and budding director, yops.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yops, I do. Oh man, that's beautiful human.
Speaker 2:The brother from another mother Come on, just a beautiful man. And he came down because, after a bit of back and forth, yeah, they, they did a bit of filming with us, myself and our family for a day and a half. Just wanted to capture our story. It's gonna be part of SP, sptv, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Awesome.
Speaker 2:So that was a real funny experience and I was just constantly like laughing and having jokes. But yes, like bro, it's so weird, you know, having someone following you around with a camera and everything Anyway. So that was cool.
Speaker 1:That is so good, I can't wait to see it. It's so good, it's so good. Well, let me officially, what we'll do in the post edit is we do an intro saying who you are in a bit of like a formal intro, and then we cut into the conversation. We don't make people sit through that awkwardness of going today's guest, blah, blah, blah. We'll do that after the call. But yeah, Andy, do you want to kind of open up officially with the welcome?
Speaker 3:to the first question. I will. I'm just going to grab my charger. I realized my laptop's going to run out of juice just two seconds.
Speaker 1:When's your SPTV going live?
Speaker 2:Yops didn't give a thought, he just said like within a few months.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome, how fun. It would be so weird just having like this camera, just constantly like, oh, hello, yeah, yeah, yeah. And in the beginning I imagine in the beginning you're like oh, and then afterwards, because he's so cool as well, it's like oh, yeah, it's just man.
Speaker 2:Do you know much of his story? No, very inspiring. He was one of the first bloke because he played for the All Blacks.
Speaker 2:He officially on yeah, he played for the All Blacks for a few years there, for a few years there and, yeah, he was one of the first ones to talk up in that, in that circle around mental health, mental health awareness and the trials and tribulations that you face as a professional athlete, especially the transition from professional athlete to civilian life. Yeah, so that's why, when he was actually down, when we first ever opened the studio, and instantly we connected. I mean, how could you not? The man is just, he's such a personable man, beautiful, family man and that's where you know, I was like man, you got a vibe about you. I was like what's your story? And then he shared it with me there and then I was like man, you're a superstar, bro.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's cool. We'll have to get him over. We're just across the park from him. Yeah, that's very cool yeah.
Speaker 2:He's got, he's he speaks a lot of hope, that man, yeah, he's got some beautiful words of wisdom that fella from all of his life experiences today, yeah, yeah, beautiful, you missed Eddie when you're off off their headphones.
Speaker 1:He played for the All Blacks for some time and was one of the first people to speak up about mental health and especially transitioning out and of sport to civilian life. And yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 3:That's very cool, very cool Amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, you're a humble man you wouldn't even have known.
Speaker 1:No, and that's the beauty, isn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so good, all right.
Speaker 3:Are we good for?
Speaker 1:sound and everything, andy, you feel comfortable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, we're all good. I'll kick off then. Carlo Novak, it's such a pleasure to have you here with us today. I know you're in beautiful Tassie and we're up in sunny Queensland at the moment and it's such an honor to have you here. I remember when Cherie first met you in Queenstown at a studio Pilates conference Back in March this year it was even before, I think, we talked about the idea of introducing a podcast as Part of illuminate, and I don't even know if we were settled on a name, but it was very much like. I met this guy. His name is Carlo. He's from studio Pilates, he used to, he used to be in the military, he's been a war, he's seen some things and he just has the ultimate growth mindset and we have to have him on the podcast.
Speaker 3:If ever we're gonna do a podcast it's gonna be for someone like to have Carlo on and showcase his story. So so excited to have you here today. Thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 2:Oh man, as I said to you guys earlier, thank you so much for having me. I'm just so humbled to be here and you guys are beautiful human beings, so, yeah, happy to have a chat, jam out and go from there, yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1:Awesome, so great. Thanks, carlo, we just want to jump in. I think the first question we ask every time To any guest is what does lead with courage mean to you?
Speaker 2:Leading with courage. So it's. I've always loved, you know, leading by example. Yeah, and that has changed, though that, if you really delve deep into that leading by example because Leading by example back in the day for me was like, yeah, push hard, drive through, push through the pain, and that that was great and you know my place of working in the military, but that started not really serving me the best. And then I realized now, looking back, you always have hindsight, 2020 when you're looking back, right, thank, you.
Speaker 2:I was like, yeah, sometimes I was like, oh, that probably wasn't the best example, but that was a part of my journey and learning and growing and realizing like, just because you're pushing when you probably shouldn't doesn't mean it's the best thing. But yeah, leading by example these days, yeah, it's always driving to do the very best I can, inspiring those around me, but also, you know, boasting in the weakness of like, if I'm feeling down and flattened out or anything, to then just be honest with myself, be honest with my family and then anyone that's around that to show like it's okay sometimes when you know to fail or stumble and fall. Yeah, because I think that back in the day it used to almost appear as a facade.
Speaker 2:Oh my god man, just going from strength to strength, no, non-stop. It's like superhuman, not like that man. You know the struggles and everything that I had behind the scenes that I would not hop like I hide away. You know I wouldn't show anyone that side. Um, yeah, so that's it, leading by example.
Speaker 1:Yeah, beautiful, and you know, with your permission and your generosity, we'd love to go into a little bit of that background because you've right now, with your wife, you guys are owning studio Pilates franchise in in Tasmania, bell reef. Yeah, that's good, yeah good, and you and your beautiful family creating that community down there and that in itself is a podcast episode and a great conversation. And also, I think, what's led you to this point and you know the experiences and the story of Carlos so far and You've had, you've led a few different lives, I suppose you could say, in the different careers that you've had. And do you want to just take us back? I guess maybe give us a little bit of who is Carlos and and where have you been in your career, and then we can jump into some of those pieces.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm a country boy at heart. I'm born in bread and Mount Isa in Queensland, beautiful mom and dad. Mum's still there till today. My father passed away a couple of years ago. He is. He added battle with cancer. He lasted seven years battling cancer before he finished with that. But again, that's a whole other part of the story which was a beautiful healing in our family.
Speaker 2:But yeah, we're up there and was part of an era where swimming Transformed when it came to people that were in, like you know, remote or isolated areas. I had the privilege of being coached in swimming by the late great Rodney Wolf. That man was like another father figure to me, just such an inspiring man. Talk about someone that led by example. He was a very accomplished swimmer and Footy player in his own right. Yeah, swimming I swam from nine years old in club and then Tried my hand, going professional for a year and a half, but nearly two years in total. By the time I wound things up Could not make it in Australia.
Speaker 2:I was in the golden era of swimming, so we had, like Curin, perkins, suzy O'Neill, the list goes on and on, jade winter himself, who I have the privilege of working alongside in studio Pilates now, and so, with my heritage being half Filipino, half German, I Went over the Philippines, tried to give give it a crack to make the Filipino swim team for the Olympics. That wasn't meant to be. Got sick three weeks out from the actual trials, the Olympic trials. I was meant to be like I got it. It was my first time living away from home and abroad, and I was drinking the water and everything like living like a local and I got an amoeba from the water system, so that's like a micro microorganism. Yeah, that flattened me out and I thought it was just the stress and everything of the training as I was tapering getting ready for the trials. But yeah, I lost a lot of weight in a short period of time and it blew the taper out. But that's when the old man on the phone he said that's it, you've mucked around enough. Now time to come home and figure out what you're gonna do. And when I came home the pathways were either go down, go to uni in Townsville or yeah.
Speaker 2:But but I had other ideas I had in my mind for the military for quite some time. I'd seen a few older blokes in my hometown that were really inspiring blokes, you know, and I was like wow, how, you know, some of them were like Right into their grunge music, long hair and everything. And then I went to the military, came back, these like Just in appearance, just men, you know, wearing their uniforms and speaking to us at school. I'm about what the military had done for them giving them structure and stability, grounding in life, and that was, that was the final sort of seal in the deal. So I pursued that pathway and then, yeah, got into the military, served in the infantry for eight and a half years in total full-time, and, yeah, I did multiple tours during that time and I and started getting certain dreams.
Speaker 2:I was getting dreams of, yeah, my death, actually so, and it was a recurring dream and it was this dream where I was dying in this glorious gun battle and the dream would always then finish with me going I could have that path and I'd be remembered, or I could leave and then have another path of their living life and Always crazy to talk about that. Yeah, so I was like because I'd I'd already come to terms with the risk that I could lose my life. You know, we were going on tours, combat, combat, deployments. There was a real threat there. And now, looking back again, I know that I definitely had a piece about like, hey, I'm gonna go down, I'll go down fighting and with my brothers on my side.
Speaker 2:But no, I'm very, very thankful I went down the other path. I ended up discharging and then fried my hand in the frontline services because I thought I want to experience what life is like in Australia. And so that's where. Then I Loved the medical side of things, because in infantry, depending on what pathway you go, I had I got trained in advanced combat first aid when we could get do intravenous access, you know, yeah, do a little bit more advanced Interventions to sustain life until they could get, you know, the injured casually, could get to definitive, more definitive care, and you used to use mnemonics. So when you'd be finishing up with a patient, you know, and going through the training, then you'd say Document an evac with the final process, I document everything you found. But I used to say it really quick and go dock an evac. And some of the bosses used to be like, oh, doctor Novak, and yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:Premonition, but anyway, I've ended up pursuing a career as a paramedic. And, yeah, it didn't get in initially. And when I asked for feedback they said, oh, I had to push a little bit there with the HR team because they said, you know, they don't normally give feedback. But the girl then just said, look, would never heard from you. It's the first time we've ever seen an application from you. But just try again in 12 months. So I use that time to travel for a bit to Europe with my partner at the time. And Then I got a job doing general laboring and a you know, just to tick finances over. Yeah, tried my hand even at retail. I thought I want to do something where I don't have to. Yeah, yeah, I just wanted to work and I'm not free.
Speaker 2:Yeah, stress free, just dealing with people, you know. Yeah, so I did a few different things here and there, working in engineering company as a general tradesman, and then the next year the application's opened, put the exact same application in because it was the same criteria and everything that they wanted and Just changed the dates, changed my address and, lo and behold, I got in. So that kicked off my journey becoming a paramedic. But yeah, that seven years of doing that before I hit a wall, and I hit a wall through that career. I started hitting walls physically and then, bit by bit, the cracks started showing to psychologically. Yeah, so that was, that was really dark times and it led me down a really dark path there.
Speaker 1:That's your paramedic times.
Speaker 2:That was a paramedic time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I, officially, I will finish things up there at the end of 2018. Oh sorry, 2017, my date's correct. Yeah, so end of 2017 is when I finished up officially with the paramedics up in Darwin and the Northern Territory.
Speaker 1:I recall you telling me a statistic about delivering babies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So In the paramedics, like any workplace, luck of the draw? Um, yeah, yeah, I got a moniker pretty early on in my career. I don't want to swear, they called me an S magnet. Yeah, I was really attracting. You name the job, I see. I kept on just being the one to get it. I even got to the point where I had Paramedic mentors with me, because you start off as a trainee, you're studying at the same time full-time, as well as working on road as a trainee paramedic, and I would get some of them rocking up on the shift and going oh man, I thought I was gonna have a quiet shift and, yeah, we would just get these hectic jobs. And yeah, I ended up finishing up delivering a total of eight babies throughout my career in the course of seven years. They were beautiful but far out. They definitely made you flex your clinical knowledge and skills. Yeah, and one of the best ones. It was actually one of the One of the very last jobs that I'd completed.
Speaker 2:I was a station officer by stage, so I was one of the managers on road managing the crews. And yeah, we had a woman in labor at home and it and it was reported as a breach birth, which is extremely dangerous. You know you don't have those factors involved when it comes to being in definitive care and A lot of the times it can be misreported. But when I arrived on scene because there were no crews available to back up and I was, single response yeah, it was definitely a breach birth and yeah, the woman, she was just incredible. You know the strength that she had and the courage that she showed and the majority was just hands-off. But it became the first out-of-hospital breach Delivery in ten years. So that made the record books up and down on the territory Um, private or the hospital up there in the maternity ward yeah, so that was a really cool experience, legend.
Speaker 1:I remember you saying to me that maybe there's so many paramedics that actually haven't even delivered a baby, like it's not that common you.
Speaker 2:So baby number five, which ended up being quite a complex case. The paramedic I was working with. He had never delivered a baby and by that stage he was at, I think, 20 or 21 years in his career.
Speaker 2:Wow, Never deliver a baby. And so it was a two o'clock in the morning or thereabouts and we got the page and it wasn't far from the station, but we were working at in Palmerston, and he said, mate, 20 years, never deliver a baby. This will be not load and go. I said, well, I've delivered four in my career already, mate, in the short period of time. I don't know about the odds here, let's see if it balances out. And yeah, that ended up being quite a complex case which he'd had early separation of the placenta, and then it was a rapid delivery and we ended up having two casually not casually, but two severely ill patients, so the baby wasn't breathing upon delivery. And when we did the initial assessment, yeah, so we had to do some manual sternal rubs and then she started having to do a resus what we call a dry resus of the baby, to get the baby breathing. And then, because it was so early, it was 27 weeks gestation.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness yeah 47.
Speaker 2:40 weeks is a standard gestation for nine months and the lady, when she delivered, had massive postpartum hemorrhage so she was bleeding out, so we had to then manage her bleeding.
Speaker 2:That was really difficult to control because she also had a history in the previous birth of grade three tear, so that occurred again. But it was the best feeling when we pulled into the ramp and then got the bub out and then Bubby started breathing on its own and the woman had been praying actually at that time too and I didn't have my faith in my life about that stage, but I really could feel a presence during that job. It was amazing. And anyway, two years later I got to I was standing in a cafe and I had two student paramedics with me that I was mentoring on road at the time and I had an African gentleman with his little thumb there and he came and grabbed me and he said, excuse me, you were the paramedic that delivered my son two years ago. And yeah, and he goes. As you can see, he's a healthy boy and I was like far out.
Speaker 2:This is yeah, so that was awesome.
Speaker 1:Oh, all the goosebumps Talo.
Speaker 3:Like oh phenomenal, phenomenal, did you have any full circle moments like that during your time as a paramedic, where you know you almost see life and death straight in front of you, but maybe it's separated by time One of them actually were to see the flow on effect in some and not the best way.
Speaker 2:So we had a case where a young boy had it was on school holidays and it was at a college and it was St John's College, and we got called out and I was the primary treating officer. I hadn't, I hadn't gotten to the stage of being fully qualified, I was just on the cusp of being a fully qualified paramedic. Anyway, we arrived on scene and the boy was in complete cardiac arrest. He had his teachers that were the duty teachers at the school doing CPR Anyway, and it was a really complex case as well because he had a distended abdo. He was bleeding profusely from the mouth. So we did it was really confusing and he was in complete what's called a systole. So, flat lined, we worked and normal protocol is you continue a resuscit and if there's no output, 20 minutes back, then was what you'd work to, and then, if there's no signs compatible with life, then it, when it's agreed by all clinicians on scene, you cease. But if there's one person, at least one person, that disagrees or wants to continue, then that's where. Then you'll continue.
Speaker 2:And again, I had this wash over me, everyone was looking at it one another. And then, you know, we had to clear the room out to begin with because there was a lot of kids in there as well his classmates and just to control the scene. But something compelled me that, no man, this is something here with. I think this boy is viable, so we made the decision to then load into the ambulance and then get him to definitive care. So we did that, got him to hospital form as soon as we got him into the resuscitation room and he had no output by the time we got there. It was nearly over 40 minutes. He had output instantly and it was incredible.
Speaker 2:But then the journey started to then see if the boy would have brain damage from being, you know, hypoxic for that long, like lack of oxygen for the brain. So, full circle wise, we found out that it was found out later that the young boy he'd had a congenital heart defect that had never been picked up. They ended up putting a pacemaker. What the miracle was? He had no neurological deficits whatsoever. Wow, yeah.
Speaker 2:And a couple of years later we found out that he was still, because he sent a letter to the ambulance service thanking all of the crews that were involved, and it was from his family and behalf of the family too, for helping to save his life. And so that was so beautiful. But the negative, while on, was some of those teachers that had been involved and were accredited to saving that young boy's life, because that's what saved lives early CPR, early defibrillation, and, yeah, to go to some of those teachers who had tried to take their own life as a result of the PTSD that they'd sustained from that case. So you know, it was a real contrast, this beautiful outcome, but then to then, you know, witness, yeah, the hardships that can come from that.
Speaker 1:And yeah, yeah, wow, wow, wow yeah.
Speaker 2:I look, honestly, I get a little choked up again. I don't talk about these stories that often and I'm very thankful actually that I'm I'm I'm at a place in life. I'm emotionally connected because I got to a place where I wasn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, carlo, I just want to just keep saying thank you, because the generosity to share this and tap back into that for yourself and to feel that emotion like that, that's courage all over, isn't it, and it's just the word that keeps coming up for me. It's just so generous. So, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:Wow, man, I felt so privileged that I got to do those jobs. And, yeah, I got exactly what I, what I wanted in life, because my prayers as a young boy, when I had my faith growing up, were very specific as well, like, yeah, I used to pray when I was a boy going to church. I want to be a good man in life, yeah Well.
Speaker 1:I don't know you that well, carlo, but I think that is absolutely what you are, without a doubt, without a doubt Incredible man, incredible father. And yeah, and it's tricky.
Speaker 3:It's tricky, I don't know about you, but I always found it tricky to define for yourself what a good man is.
Speaker 3:You know, it's a lot easier to kind of look from the outside, you know, looking in and being like, oh, there's a good man, because I sit here in front of you, albeit separated on Zoom, but I look at you and I'm like that's a good man, you know, because, like, the integrity shines through, your authenticity shines through.
Speaker 3:But sometimes it can be really, I think, difficult to treat that to ourselves and be and look at there and being like I am a good man and you mentioned, I wonder whether you kind of enlighten us a little. You mentioned before that there were times where you'd, you know, kind of maybe lost touch or lost feeling with those things. And even if we could, even if we could go to those teachers you talked about, you know, who were dealing with some fairly significant trauma of seeing a student go into cardiac arrest, what, what prompts them, like in your experience, to go down that track of feeling like they need to, you know, kind of exit this world and take their own life. You know, in those moments I wonder, do you have something that you could share in terms of that. That would kind of lead them down that track after seeing something so traumatic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, look, everyone has a different journey, we all process things differently, but I can only speak about what got me to a place of that sort of level of darkness. We don't know what was the precursors leading up to them finally keeping over the edge. But that's to me what it comes to. It comes to a tipping point. You know we all have a tipping point. We can only a human mind and body can only take so much. That's why we're human. We're not God, you know.
Speaker 2:And that's where, late after the fact, I could then relate, because at the time I was thinking, you know, I showed genuine compassion and understanding and care. But I also, internally, I know I had that mindset of like, yeah, how could this affect you? But that's because I hadn't walked that journey yet. I hadn't, you know. That's why you don't know what someone's walking through. We can only try our very best to then try and attempt to simulate what it would be like to walk in someone else's shoes.
Speaker 2:But for my journey, getting to a point where I was so low, so in the deepest, darkest pits of despair, I had a few extra things happen that then were the final tipping point where I had no choice. I had to face that or make the choice, like I was wanting to do at the time a few years ago, which was take my life, you know, and I hadn't up to that point, I'd had failures, but overarching there was always. You know, it would always. End result would be success, so to speak. You know, hitting all the objectives and goals that I wanted and I'd set out for myself in my military career and hitting the objectives and goals I'd set out for myself in the parametric career. But yeah, bit by bit, the negatives were lumping more and more and I was wearing that, I was holding it without even really realizing I'd normalize that to and internalize that, and that's where I'd gotten to a point of going well, I'll always be successful if I really put my mind to it.
Speaker 2:So I'm taking my life, I'm going to make sure I'm successful. So I'd made quite a clear plan of how I was going to do it, and it was a big process to get to that point. But, oh man, I give thanks to God that it didn't happen that way and I could finally open my eyes up. You know, it took my wife at the time to reach out to a veteran mate and then him then going. He needs to get this. But it was interesting, you know, looking back now, because he didn't share his weaknesses, what was perceived as weaknesses at the time, the struggles he was going through, and that's why he was able to then go reach out to open or the veteran affairs like the hotline, and so then they called me and it was the first moment where I finally broke down and because I couldn't hold it back anymore, I couldn't keep those walls up anymore. But the next morning I'd already planned to take my life and I was going to do that with medications that I'd been taking because it was expired stock. It's something that, as a paramedic, the role I was doing. We were in charge of drug disposal in that role as well. And, yeah, I ended up taking medications that were expired.
Speaker 2:The original plan was my ex-wife, now my former father. Well, he was battling cancer himself and he was going through some pretty bad pain and everything with all the medication he was going on. And so I ended up going. Maybe I can then give him pain relief if needed. They never had to get to that point and then he ended up passing away sooner than what was expected as well. But again, I had that medication sitting there and then it transformed into well, maybe this is how I'll take my life.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I know that this can be quite triggering for others to hear, especially, so I'm very cautious of how I speak about this. But yeah, but after that initial phone call where I'd leased, I was like it felt good. I was like this isn't changing my circumstances. So the next morning, when my wife took our daughter to daycare, I thought, well, this is it, now I'm ready.
Speaker 2:I sat it all out, drew it all up, ready to go. I was going to give myself a call anyway, and then that's when I prayed for the first time in about 11 years by that stage, and I went if there is somebody out there, I'm being a big and I got the call and I was expecting the call from that veteran counselor. But then I knew straight away. I was like something it was, I knew it would now know. Now it was God Going on here I see you Answer the phone and I answered it and that started my I like to call it. There's another bloke in the veteran community is a very inspiring man and he coined the term post traumatic growth journey to PTG journey and I love, always love that and so, yeah, that was where my PTG journey started and I'm very grateful for that.
Speaker 3:Hello, I know you have to oh, I Assume I should say I shouldn't say I know, but I assume you have to go to some fairly dark places to be able to Kind of articulate that story and I just want to say thank you. Thank you for doing that, because I believe that It'll. There'll be someone that that he is that or someone that knows is someone who might be going through something like that and it might just help them, you know, kind of along their own post dramatic growth journey. You know when, when all's done. So Thanks for sharing that vulnerability and thanks for being so raw, and that's what I'm here for, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you. I'm here to show like, yeah, you could. I know exactly what it's like to get into the the deepest, darkest places. I like the visual I like to paint. If I'm ever talking to veterans that finally get to that point of talking and then they're on that post traumatic growth journey, it's like, oh yeah, man, you can feel like you're in a slimy pit and you're trying to crawl out, and every time you get a little more, you think you're getting a bit of traction and then you slide back Like you're still going forward. Man, keep digging deep, you'll get out the light.
Speaker 2:Is there One of my favorite scriptures that I love to always remind myself of? The light shines in the darkness and the darkness has not overcome it. Come on, man, there's no way you can have the smallest bit of light in the darkest room I'm talking like even the darkest I've ever experienced in my life is doing jungle warfare training, and even in the jungles of East Timor, like you, can be in the depths of the jungle, where the canopy is so thick Above you that at night time, man, there's always a spin out there. Put your hand in front of your face and they go and you can't see anything? Wow, as soon as you get the smallest bit of light. There's no one that can hide a light in that sort of darkness, man, because it will shine so brightly and that's the visual I like the paint to go. It's like that's all you need. You say a little glimmer, and before long, if you keep on going to that light, it'll get brighter and brighter.
Speaker 2:Just takes time, man, it takes hard work, but it's worth it, because then it you get out the other side and, yeah, some of the some of the best fruit grows in the deepest valleys. Yeah, and that can be quite dark as well, but a good man of mine reminds me of that sometimes. You know, but, man, that fruit tastes so good when you're on top of the mountain because you've worked so hard, and it might feel like you're going up and down, you just going through crevices and stuff, but you, eventually you get to that top of the peak, man, you get to look back it's the best view and you get to enjoy that delicious fruit that you've collected. Because the fruit, the analogy, is, you're picking up tools to make you stronger Mentally. It's not just the physical, it's not just the outward, it's the internal and for me especially, the thing that really linked everything in was To work that spiritual muscle man. You know, that's it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's so profound. That's so profound. Um, I love that, I absolutely love that. I'm wondering, if it's, if it's okay, can we talk about the post traumatic growth journey?
Speaker 3:Um, you know from that from that moment, from that morning, from that phone call, from that, from that God knocking at the door, to what happened then, how did you kind of what, what I guess? Talk, talk through without baiting you too much. Talk through what did that walk like in terms of picking you up off the canvas To even where you are now and the and the practices that you have to, you know, ensure that you're at a place where you not only fill your own cup but then you give back to other vets and whoever else needs it.
Speaker 2:Man, so that journey, and I said, like you know, I now know, looking back, that was God falling on the ground. I was God pulling on because I'd asked. I'd asked overtly and that was that was an overt asking, but it was in my heart. I wanted the help, I was crying out for it. Um, but God doesn't force himself in your life, unlike an infantry soldier, where we can kick the door and Make entry, take a space. You know, shout out to all those veterans out there that do that, have done and do that job. Um, that's what I loved it. But, yeah, he doesn't work like that and so that then that was the initial, but classic. Like any bloke or woman, anyone that's just motivated in life, you do it in your own strength. So I was like righty, oh, that's it.
Speaker 1:So I dug deep into the tools that I already had in me at that point, which was like the soldiering, the Australian soldiering mentality, you know, like Um yeah, we haven't talked on that yet, like when we kind of went eight years and then we're at paramedics, but it's like all the lessons and, um, yeah, the the things that you've taken from that. Now, as you're saying, sorry, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, up until that point I'd gotten these amazing tools but I'd forgotten how to use them because I'd lost who I was. You know, my identity Was as a soldier, then my identity was as a paramedic. When all of that started slipping away from me, I was like, who am I? So? That's why I went straight into that righty. Oh. So, improvise, adapt, overcome, let's do this.
Speaker 2:So I started connecting with the right services, like mental health professionals. I started talking more real because I loved my time as a paramedic, but I think, overall the the Um, the culture and my time, there was a. What I couldn't look back now is it was a changing the guard. You know, we were starting your transition into tertiary level qualification as opposed to just diploma. Um, yeah, you were really having to lift your game in that. In that sense, clinically and professionally, there was a massive stigma around mental health, whilst my exposure to the military yes, it was definitely off the mark, um, you know. But I saw through my, my career and doing. I did four tours in all and each tour you do pre-deployment. Midway through they'd sometimes check in with your mental health and then post deployment, but um, when did you deploy?
Speaker 2:again Carlo um, I did my first tour in team all and then my second tour was in iraq. I did my third tour in afghanistan, slipped in a um events jungle warfare training trip into brunei there. That was awesome, working with the brunei and commandos over there, and then finished my last tour in what was then called team all, neste. When they got their um uh yeah, when they uh gained their, my goodness, I'm lost. They're independence. Yeah, yeah, thank you. Yeah, that's all right. I just realized my batteries going low.
Speaker 1:You need to grab that.
Speaker 2:Yep, um, anyway. So I'd taken away these amazing pools in my career. But, yeah, as I said, I'd started losing my way with how to utilize those tools effectively. And uh, that's where I went into the well, I'm going to adapt. And uh, okay, I've got this great medical qualification all side step into nursing and I thought maybe that'll be a little more.
Speaker 2:You know, like you're in a more controlled environment, more of a bigger team around you supporting you, um, but as soon as uni was about to kick off, ah, that was not I, just in my spirit. It wasn't the right way to go. I just felt such an uneasiness because I hadn't done any healing. All I was doing was trying to go onto the next thing, reinvent myself. So, yeah, that was when I had them. It felt like it was such a tough decision at the time and I discussed it with my wife and discussed it with my clinicians in my corner, the psychologists and psychiatrists and they said, yeah, mate, now you're ready to start going on the journey of actually healing and addressing this.
Speaker 2:So that involved me pushing into the veteran spaces. I started getting involved in veteran organisations like BuddyUp, mate's for mates, legacy, just even getting involved with the RSL and then I saw the Invictus Games and I watched the Invictus Games and I was like man, this is inspiring. This is where it's about what it's about. And so I put in an application with the Warrior in Invictus Games program and went from there, started attending. I got an invite to the camps and attended the camps and they were. They have all the different sports in the adaptive sports arena and, yeah, I just thought I'm here to learn and grow and meet people, connect in with other like-minded individuals that want to help themselves, and everything that they offered.
Speaker 2:I was like putting my hand up for everything. That's something that I've always done as well. I've always loved to hey, put your hand up, you know, stay yes to things you don't know where it's going to take you. And, yeah, bit by bit, the camps they whittled the numbers down until they made it down and I got the call.
Speaker 2:I made the final team 23 of us for Team Australia to deploy at the Warrior Games in Tampa in Florida in 2019, and I was so honored, I couldn't believe it. I was so humbled and just the amazing friendships that I'd made through that journey. So we were all cool in each other and just celebrating. And then the ones the best thing was like the ones that didn't make the team men, everyone, just beautiful support network, you know, because, yeah, they were really had all of us put in there to get on the team. We couldn't all get on there and the genuine support that's where those people were like messaging on the group apps, message apps that we had. I'm just like so thankful to be supported and loved, you know, not just forgotten about because they hadn't made the team, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're still part of that brotherhood and part of the communities.
Speaker 2:Exactly and then. So we all got an email on a it was a Friday, I remember and then I got a call from the head coach, jeff Stokes. He's a amazing man, he's one of the head coaches for the Brumbies and that's why I was always like you know everything. He told us. You just lap it up, you know, because he's got a lot of wisdom in that fella. And yeah, he called me and was they were so impressed with how I'd performed during all the camps.
Speaker 2:They left it in my court to make a decision if I wanted to be Australia's first representative as being the ultimate champion contender for Australia. And so, because of my swimming background, he said it. He goes, mate. It means that you'd actually have to scale your calendar back because you're only allowed to, as the ultimate champion, competing two events per discipline, but you do every sport on offer. So good, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I said, okay, look, I don't want to make any rash decisions. Can you give me the weekend thinking he goes? Yeah, mate, think about it over the weekend and talk about it with my wife. And I thought I don't need someone to tell me that I know how to swim. I'm there for the experience and, yeah, I'm not trying to be silly, but of course I wanted to win the medal. But I wasn't there for the medals, I was there for the experience, and so I made the decision to give my cracker, give it a crack at the ultimate champion. And yeah, I'd never apart from being in school, I'd never shot and bow an arrow before, so I got to do archery. Never ridden a race bike in my life, so I would do cycling. Yeah, that was incredible.
Speaker 1:How much prep time did you have to learn these new sports and these new?
Speaker 2:skills, I think, from way to go, by the time all the camps had finished, it was about three and a half months in total, a full-time training. Wow, when I got over yeah, when we got over to the States, you realized because they've got a lot of money and time as well the Americans they were prepping for like a year to a year and a half. So that's where I was like righty-o, I'm going to have to really dig deep and bring the goods here. But again, just the friendships. I'm still friends with those men and women from America and Canada, all the nations. We're all follow each other on Instagram, check in from time to time, yeah, and I finished fifth overall and that was incredible. Yeah, amazing experience.
Speaker 1:Unreal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so powerful. Yeah, got the bonus. Took two golds out of the pool and the silver on the track with our relay team, so that was awesome, unreal.
Speaker 1:Unreal, and so that you know part of that story. When Andy's saying about the post-traumatic growth, like that's all what's come after that for you. That was that coming back connecting with vets, the physical output, the camaraderie just such a powerful space, exactly.
Speaker 2:But tying it back to what I'd said earlier about, you know, look, the recovery journey, it's not a straight line. I'm not trying to insult anyone's intelligence with that, but unless you go through it you wouldn't really think about it right. And now I know, like man, it is ups and downs, it's peaks and troughs, and so that was massive peaks, you know. But then after it collapsed again, you know you're going back into norm, back into reality. Who am I? What am I doing? And it's great Like I had all these injuries in my body because by that stage, after going through different medical appointments and then getting assessed by clinicians like exercise physiologists, physiotherapists and medical doctors, they would send me off, I'd normalize living with quite significant pain as well.
Speaker 2:And by the end of it that's where I was. They found sorry that I had quite extensive spinal damage during my service in the military. I'd had, I'd blown my shoulder out, so I had my shoulder fully reconstructed. Same with my ankle. I had my ankle reconstructed. But when they pulled my medical records, that was when the delegate so normal process takes a few months because you've got to get the medical records cleared through government and because there were there were files there under to secret and top secret that we operated under as well. So that took a little extended time. But once they finally released that, my medical files showed that I'd actually had an unbeknownst to me.
Speaker 2:I was involved in a gunshot incident in my career and that was just a training accident. But when she read it because she was a woman in Perth over the phone that was managing my case she said, oh, you had a GSW and gunshot wound. And I went what? Oh, I didn't. And she goes yeah, you did it with a training accident. It's all documented here. And so that started the journey of exploring neurological and look fast forward, I ended up getting in 2019, diagnosed with a mild traumatic brain injury and it's very mild. What it did was it affected parts of my memory center and the way that my brain receives pain and that connected a lot of dots because it even got to the point at the end of 2019, after I'd had that assessment I was involved in a motorcycle accident and I walked away from that bike accident.
Speaker 2:The guy that hit me he was off his face on drugs got all sorted out properly by the police and that. But yeah, walked away and I just felt irritable and for the next few months I was like something just doesn't feel right. Just kind of get comfortable. And it was my partner who, talia, she's a paramedic she was begging me please go to the hospital. And I was like I'll be fine, and I was in training to try and get to the Invictus games and that's when I ended up going off, got pretty gnarly chest pain. So I ended up going to the hospital.
Speaker 2:They did the battery test, cardiac function, all good, but as a protocol, because it was chest pain, they did an x-ray. And when the doctor came back he sat on the bed and because my father is dealing with cancer, I was like, oh man, have I got cancer now? What's going on? And he looked in his face Everything okay, doc. And he said Mr Novak, we've got to have a serious chat. I don't know how you're even sitting here talking to me because you have rib fractures in your. You've broken your eighth, ninth, 10th, 11th and 12th rib In multiple places. He goes it's the worst remodeled rib cage I've ever seen. He goes, quite frankly, don't even know how you're sitting here at the moment. He goes, are you okay? And I said yeah, just feeling a little bit heaviness on the chest and a little bit how it hurts to breathe a little bit, I guess, but it just feels uncomfortable. So that's where, going through the battery test with a neurospecialist, it all came down to the final diagnosis of that mild traumatic brain injury.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but going on CBD on CBD medications prescribed by a doctor out of Brisbane he's an amazing doctor, I'm giving him a plug. Dr John Tay, that did a lot of transformation in me. That helped me to get off all the opiates because I had to then go on a heap of opiate medications and everything as well. That was a journey and a half to get off that stuff as well. Yeah, that was tough. Wow, yeah, it all, all of this stuff, when we I know we've taken the long path, but no, that's great.
Speaker 1:I love the long path.
Speaker 2:The PTG journey, you know, took me ups and downs here, but as like I kept on getting to a point where I would be like, well, what next? I'd keep getting to a point of feeling this emptiness, like just something was missing. I could feel it and I could feel like I was going in the right direction, but it was always just something just off, something not right. And it wasn't until I was really starting to feel the depression and everything kicking back again, and that my father, he was the last person I would have expected. But I ended up crying on the phone because I'd been learning how to, you know, get more in touch with my emotions. And you know, and my dad was like I said I don't know who I am, I don't know what is going on, I don't know what to do. And he said you don't know what to do in German, but your Carlo F and Novak go to church. And I went go to church, yeah, okay. Well, I've done everything else and nothing's changing. Just feels like it's just. It felt like it was just the cycle was getting bigger. So I wasn't going into the bad places as often anymore, but it would keep on circling back to it. And I went, yeah, okay, I've got nothing to lose. So, yeah, I just Googled Catholic Churches, hobart, and the first number that came out I just rung that and that was Father Terry. He works out of the parish in Richmond beautiful place if you haven't been to Tasmania, by the way and then I said I'm in a dark place, I'm going to put you bad way here. And he goes where are you? And I said I'm out, about 25 minutes away from Richmond. He goes can you come in? I said yeah, so I drove out. That man gave me three and a half hours of his time that afternoon and that was my first ever confessional in my life. And man, he sat there and what was the chances to? He was actually a priest in the military as well and we had a very, very shared common ground there and it was just such a big release because it was crazy.
Speaker 2:But talking about faith and God, these are the concepts that I hadn't been discussing in any of my psychological sessions. It was all about giving me extra tools, which were great. They were helping to help me doing grounding work. We were doing EMDR, eye movement, d-sense that I take, d-sense that I take session, rapid eye movement, training. These were great tools but, as I said, I kept on feeling that something was missing. And so, yeah, that kicked off the journey of the faith, the spiritual journey, and I started making it into the habit of going to church every Sunday and they gave me the familiarity of what I'd grown up in. But the thing that I kept on noticing was I was like, man, the Bible is really speaking hope, you know, and yeah, fast forward.
Speaker 2:I met my partner, talia, and she's Christian, you know, and she'd been coming to church with me a few times. And she said you've been to my church, I've been to your church a few times. Do you want to come to the church that I go to? And I was like straight up, like, oh yeah, was it going to be throwing your hands in the air and all this sort of? I was pretty overtly cynical about it. And she said, oh, I think you like it. It's just a beautiful community. You know people getting together and listening to people. You know the Bible being preached and, man, that was incredible to walk into those doors.
Speaker 2:I go to C3 church in Hobart here and one of the first people that I ran into he be-lined it to me. Actually His name is Sean Pastor. Sean now I know. But he noticed the remembrance bracelet that us boys wear for one of the boys that we lost on his tour in Afghan, scotty Palmer. And because Sean now I know I have found out he'd done some time over in the Middle East working as a paramedic. And yeah, and he was like sorry for the lost brother and I said, oh, did you serve? And then that was it. We just connected in chatting and he told me about his time working in the Middle East and personally alongside a military personnel in his paramedic role. And then he was like, oh, I've got to get going. And I was like, oh, okay, man, it was lovely meeting and he goes. Yeah, sorry, mate, I've got to get in there. And I was like, okay, cool. And so we went in and it was him preaching and I was just completely captivated. You know the words, everything that was being spoken.
Speaker 2:And so I started going to that church regularly and they ended up giving out Bibles. And this was just prior to COVID lockdown. And yeah, before that, just before that happened, I had this pulling in my heart where they said is anyone welcome Jesus into their life? You know, because it was talking about one of the scriptures was talking about Jesus's walk and the things that he had done, and I was standing there praying and it was all of a sudden, when I opened my eyes, it's like I was at the front of the service. When they asked, they said if anyone wants to come up and receive prayer. Yeah, it was like that. I didn't even have a choice, because the prayer I was praying at the time was like I'm supposed to be up there and you will guide me up there. I don't even remember walking up there. That's how.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was out of this world. And then, um, yeah, in that moment I they said, do you know Jesus? And I said I think I do. And they said, do you want us to pray? And so I had this team of people praying for me and it was just this eruption in me and in my, in my very inner most being like I can't describe it. And, yeah, it was the missing piece. Yeah, that was as simple as that, the best way to describe it.
Speaker 2:Then, just right, of COVID, they handed out these Bibles and I'd never read a Bible in my life going to church growing up and everything, and sitting in COVID and reading the Bible by the fourth day. I can't even explain it. All I know is I just know it's the works of God and that's why there's scripture that says be transformed by the renewing of your mind. And it was the journey for me to then start, um, reading the Bible. And then, yeah, having the God's input versus my own input and all the negative experiences that I'd realized now we're starting to override all of the good things that I'd had. Yeah, and I found it always fascinating, actually, because I'm I had a psychologist that said, like you could be given nine of the most amazing things in life. If you have one like sentinel event, that's a negative that can psychologically override those nine things and you're left with that one thing overriding all the rest. I totally get it now.
Speaker 2:And that's yeah.
Speaker 1:No, I'm so. It's just beautiful to hear, it's just. I'm so grateful, Andy, you're speechless.
Speaker 3:I look like I'm frozen, but I promise you I'm not. I'm just sort of soaking it in and um, you know there's no heavy lifting needed in this conversation in order to take it to where it needs to go. I know that more just sitting back, kind of trying to provide a little bit of space for you just to go where you need to go. But it's, it's been real beautiful and a real honor to think this is the, to think this is your story and so much richness there, um, to think this is the first time you've done it on a podcast. It's. It's our absolute pleasure to you know sort of host. That Um facilitating, if you like, in terms of you delivering that, because it's truly just why we do this is is for moments like this. So we're really, really grateful for it, um, really really grateful for it. I know you got your hands full now. You got sickness kind of all through the house and um, and some cold and flu there, just to kind of help you get through. So thank you, carlo, thank you so much.
Speaker 2:No, thank you, Andy. Thank you Sorry if I've rambled, a little bit. Guys, you have not at all. You have not at all.
Speaker 1:I know, I promise you have not rambled. Um, it's, it's just so beautiful and I, I guess what um? Is there anything you want to add from like, what advice, or what learnings? Or um, what, specifically when it comes, I think, to mental health, is there anything extra? You want to share all your thoughts there?
Speaker 2:With mental health. You, you feel like you're out of control when you're in the real deep, dark places. But that's the thing. You're not. It's a fallacy that you can start believing that lie, that internal dialogue. You can start really believing it. I've been there, I know. But you can take captive of every thought and everything that it's. It's equal input, equal output, right. So you know, for me it was getting to that point of reassessing my life. Everything got stripped back from me, whether I wanted it or not. I had no choice but the identity crisis that I kept on facing at all those junctures. Now I know you can strip the layers back and I'm not a paramedic anymore, I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm even if you stripped away from me business owner or family man. I know I'm a son of God, you know, and God is good.
Speaker 2:If you read the Bible and see what Jesus did, then we always want someone to look to, to inspire us, yeah, to follow. I tell you what, if you read about what Jesus did, he showed in action, in human flesh, what is possible. And when it comes from love, kindness, that was another thing too. You know your view on love. If you're unsure, read the Bible it'll tell you, love is patient, love is kind. It's not self seeking, it's not. It's not about boasting, it's humble, it's about putting others before yourself. But you're valuable too. You are, you know, the most valuable thing and it's. But you make that active choice You've got to have. You make that active choice to have a relationship with God and, in turn, you're having that relationship with yourself. Yeah, and I'm not sitting, I'm not going to sit here and go. Oh, it's all easy my life. If anything, it's been facing more trials, but it feels like it's too heavy to lift.
Speaker 2:I know where I can leave it. I can leave it. I can leave it at the foot of the cross for the sacrifice that Jesus made. And no, that's it and it will.
Speaker 2:It works every time to then lift that weight off you know, and again, you're learning more and more than what you can control, what you can lift. You're growing and you can lift more the things that you get to a point you can't, there's something bigger than you out there that can lift it for you. And yeah, one of my favorite saying as I and sharpens iron, so too one person sharpens another man. Think about the people that vibe attracts your tribe. I'm not trying to say these cliche throwaway lines.
Speaker 2:It is true, yes, If you've got those right people around you that are keeping you sharp and, in turn, you're sharpening them. Oh, my goodness, you set the world on fire in the best way, man, and you know people that uplift, motivate, inspire you. You will do the same because you don't want to be the one that's left behind, right? Yeah, and yeah. So when you've got that all of that, all of that, those things connected, that's where you can climb out of that slimy pit as I described earlier, and before long you're going to be standing there and it's a distant memory.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, sure will. Oh, carlo, that's so good. I think I used the word profound before. I've kind of run out of superlatives, but you know, you just sort of hit the nail on the head. It seems like we just have really kind of one final question today for you and it seems like, I think, from the outside, looking into people, to describe you, they would describe you, you know, certainly from the arrow, so that we've been chatting as kind and generous and one question I have for you is like what is the kindest thing that someone's done for you?
Speaker 2:Oh man, I would have to say like, like, receiving prayer. Like receiving prayer and from people that don't know you but you can tell, it's just genuine, it's just the most beautiful thing. I could go on about this actually, because like, even, yeah, receiving assistance from legacy when I was homeless at a point. You know one of my tours going into a township and you know you're getting made a meal by people that can barely feed themselves but they're so thankful for your presence there. That sort of kindness, man, those are the layers that I really tap into these days to remind myself of the kindness and the generosity and the goodness out there, even in the midst of horrible evils that could be surrounding them.
Speaker 2:You know the area in Afghanistan at the time when I was there, that was class as the most dangerous place in the world. The Taliban had such a heavy foothold and the townspeople they lived in fear, but man can their level of gratitude for us being there and they were putting themselves at risk by even showing us that they were accommodating us. You know that, yeah, that was just a phenomenal level of kindness, just to know the back end, part of that, the risk that they were taking. You know, yeah, but yeah, but, as most recently it's always been receiving prayer. When we lost out my father, you know we yeah, it was such a beautiful time to celebrate my dad's life, but, man, you hurt. You hurt when you lose your loved ones. And then to have a community around you, gathering around you, coming around making meals for you and your family, oh man, talk about being humbled, you know, and feeling loved. Yeah, Beautiful.
Speaker 3:I think that, yeah, that sums it up beautifully and perfectly. And, carlo, thank you so much for joining us today. I think I've thanked you about 17 times throughout this podcast. Same deal, though. We've loved it.
Speaker 2:Thank you yeah really, really Doing in this space like it's awesome, talking to the amazing human beings and again, keep spreading that light and good times, goodness in the world. You guys, well done, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, my friend, we appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Likewise. Thank you so much, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, carlo. Before we jump, jump off officially, can I just can we all just do a little photo in? If I get, I'll do a screenshot of the three of us. Yeah, yeah, whatever you got, yeah let me go on.
Speaker 2:This is my thing, that I'm known for my shuckers.
Speaker 1:All right, you got something, andy. Three, two, one Beautiful Carlo, please send our love to Talia as well. And yeah, thank you so much Send her love too. Thank you, it is beautiful to see you Not what you needed. Yeah, yeah, oh, absolutely, we got what we needed. Thank you so, so much, and I hope that was. Are you, are you feeling okay, you feeling good about what you've shared and Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because like this part, like we're not, are we still recording now.
Speaker 1:No, I'm going to eat technically is but let me hit, stop, no, no.
