Lead with Courage
Together with your hosts Cherie and Andy Canning, you'll dive into the minds of the trailblazers, the risk takers and those who embrace life with a growth mindset .
Get ready for real and raw conversations where authentic truths are revealed, uncovering the struggles and resilience required to bounce back.
We invite you to see this podcast as your compass to embracing your own courage to live your biggest, best life!
Lead with Courage
Simon Doble | Everyday is a Goosebumps Day | Lead with Courage
Simon Doble is a purpose driven humanitarian, social impact entrepreneur, keynote speaker, serial innovator and author.
From travelling to 106 countries, to living for 3 months in a refugee camp, Simon's story is in all parts inspiring and illuminating, as we dig deep into energy poverty and the global impact of Solar Buddy's innovative solutions.
On today's episode Simon shares his journey through life around finding his passion, overcoming personal challenges as well as the process of reconnecting with his children.
Simon's life and experiences are sure to leave you inspired, moved, and ready to make a difference in your corner of the world.
This was an absolute privilege for us to chat to Simon.
Simon Doble
Simon Doble Linkedin
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Thanks for joining us on the Lead with Courage podcast, bought to you by Luminate Leadership. We trust this episode has given you some insights and joy to empower you live your biggest, best life.
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Until the next episode, we hope you live and Lead with Courage!
Cherie and Andy x
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Luminate Leadership is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14.
Hi, I'm Chloe Canning. Luminate Leadership acknowledges the traditional custodians of the land which we record as podcasts the terrible and the ugly people. We pay our respects to Elder's past, present and emerging.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Lead with Courage, the podcast that celebrates the bold and inspiring stories of leaders making a difference. We're your hosts, Andy and Shuri Canning, and together we'll dive into the minds of the trailblazers, the risk takers and those who embrace life with a growth mindset.
Speaker 3:Simon, welcome to the Lead with Courage podcast. Thanks so much for joining us today. I know your office and where you are is not far from here as well, so we're lucky to be in the same place. So thanks for coming, and one of the first questions we'll have to kick off with is what does Lead with Courage mean to you?
Speaker 4:Okay, well, firstly, thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 4:In person as well, which is nice in just around the corner, like you say, from the office. It's good Lead with Purpose or Lead with Courage. For me, I thought a little bit about this before I came in, and one of my favourite books is Lead by Sir Alex Ferguson, who's the ex-manager of Manchester United, and on the back of his book it was Harvard Business School Ghostwritten Book and my job wasn't to manage, it was to make people believe the impossible was possible. Yeah, I love that, and I just love that.
Speaker 4:There's a lot of courage in that and there's a lot of leadership in that, and I try and sort of bring that to the game and influence the direction that we go into to try and break down the walls and the barriers of a lot of the work we do and make people believe that they can achieve the impossible, which is the epitome of leadership and courage, as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 2:Yes beautiful Simon. Where's your accent from initially Somerset, Somerset?
Speaker 4:Southwest England.
Speaker 2:Yeah, great. So then, who did you support growing up, chelsea? Okay?
Speaker 4:all right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good stuff, good stuff, Beautiful. My daughter is now. Chelsea is on the map for my daughter because of Sam Kerr in the Women's World Cup. What are your takes on the World Cup?
Speaker 4:Oh, fantastic. So I'm really good friends with Amy Chapman, who's one of the presenters on Optus. She's the next Matilda. I've met Mackenzie Arnold, the gold giver and a few of the others. So it was actually I've been asked this a lot and obviously a breed and when it comes to sport I tend to go with the English side. Even in the ashes I'll still go with England. But I went and watched the England and Matilda's against each other in Sydney and I was fully behind the Matilda's because I know them personally.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:And known Amy and her partner, billy, who used to work for us and Billy used to play for England, and it was just a beautiful thing and to know how, that personal connection with the likes of Sam Kerr and Mackenzie, and that was really special. So I'm super proud of what they did and you know the whole female empowerment thing and hopefully they can take on the unmanned sort of the US team and drive that sort of equality forward, which would be wonderful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, isn't it so powerful. We've literally just come back from holiday last week and our daughter's reading the Sam Kerr books like that's what she all she wants to talk about and it's incredible to see.
Speaker 4:Yeah, she's a phenomenon. She's absolutely amazing at what she does and she's up for the Pushko Award this year, which is the best goal of the year.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 4:Which happened to be against England, which? I saw yeah, she was running towards me when she scored that, so that was quite a wonderful moment. But, yeah, she's phenomenal. She's a great ambassador for Australia, she's a great ambassador for the sport, great ambassador for young girls and young boys. Yeah, yeah, I'm very proud of what she's achieved.
Speaker 2:Yeah, incredible. We happen to be at the Penalty Shootouts game actually here in Brisbane. I don't know if there's anything greater to experience in live sport than being there. Yeah, I had every emotion under the sun that night. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It was incredible.
Speaker 4:No nails left no.
Speaker 2:Exactly no voice left. Literally, I'd just screamed it all the way and cried it all the way. Yeah, phenomenal, what an experience. And the whole team I know that so many people talk about Sam, but it's the whole team, isn't it? The whole culture around, it's just been phenomenal.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, and I think the team came together when Sam was injured and that proved unity and yes, and they all pulled in the same direction and that's leading with courage and they all took their own leadership role and I thought that was really good to see as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Agreed, and I think it's the impossible quote as well, like where it's like well, everyone would have thought without her, we've got no choice or no chance, and then just seeing the team come together. We were literally just talking about how, when leaders take leave or walk, take time out of the business, how the team behind them rises up. So we've got to trust our teams to rise up without us, and that's probably the perfect example in a sporting arena.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Phenomenal. So good, so good. Simon, can you tell us about? I know you've probably told this story a few times over, but can you give us a bit of a history of Solar Buddy and what it's all about for those who might not be as familiar?
Speaker 4:Sure, okay. So Solar Buddy is an international children's charity. We tackle an issue called energy poverty, but predominantly extreme energy poverty. Extreme energy poverty condemns about 800 million people globally to perpetual cycles of darkness. It will have unfulfilled futures and repeated cycles of poverty. So they're spending vast majority of their daily income on fuel like kerosene or firewood or charcoal to light their homes, cook their meals and basically do the basic functions that we take, we do with electricity. Extreme energy poverty kills more children than AIDS and malaria combined every year, but very, very few people know that. So that's kind of what we do. We do it in various ways and various engaging and educational ways.
Speaker 4:But how I ended up starting Solar Buddy? I read an article in Time Magazine and it was in 2011. And I was living in Lusso on the Sunshine Coast and doing my thing, living my life, and just happened I have a reader of magazines and at the time, and books and stuff, and reading Time every week, every month, and there was this article that just described energy poverty as the worst form of poverty. And I'm well traveled and I've been to Africa many times and it just struck me that I'd lived in this sort of cycle of energy poverty, but hadn't actually considered it or comprehended it. And when I read this article I was like wow, okay, this is big. But it also struck me as solvable. We talk about water and security and sanitation and economic poverty and different things like that, and sometimes the technologies aren't there or the infrastructure isn't there Renewal energy and energy poverty. It felt like it was solvable. So I felt like if I got involved with this, maybe I could do something impactful around it. I read that article and here I am today.
Speaker 2:Wow, what was the first step? What did you do next, after the article?
Speaker 4:I took about three months to learn as much as I could about the issue. I have a very inquisitive mind and an innovator's mind and all that. So I needed to understand the nuances of the problem and what technology was out there and also the human side of it, and I read a tremendous amount Every white paper I get my hand off from universities and the United Nations and different things like governments and stuff. And then I stumbled across a terrible fact that the largest cause of death of children in refugee camps was kerosene burns and kerosene smoke from inhaler and kerosene Lines just tipping over inside cotton tents, refugee tents, and children getting burnt and infected and dying, and to me that was utterly, utterly unacceptable.
Speaker 4:And so I bought a humanitarian tent, a refugee tent you see on CNN or BBC or whatever ABC, and I bought it over to Australia and I lived in it for three months to try and mimic what it was like to live in one of these tents and burn kerosene, inhale the kerosene, you know, try and immerse myself in the experience of what it must feel like to be in that situation. And obviously in the Sunshine Coast in Australia it's not quite as severe, as you know. Refugee camp in Dadaab, in Northern Kenya or, you know, jijico and Somalia or whatever. But you know, that's what I did and I lived in it and ultimately stumbled across an innovation that I developed and solved that particular problem and invented that and took that to market and took that to United Nations and now it's a standardized form of lighting and refugee camps across the world and used by millions of people.
Speaker 2:You know it's fascinating hearing you say that and you've obviously told this story multiple times, but just to actually hear those words and that the UN and it's an approved way of people using lighting in across the world, like how does that feel for you to know that impact that obviously you've started now, your team have built, but how does that impact feel for you now?
Speaker 4:I don't really know to be honest with you. I just feel it's sometimes you just got to do what you got to do right. I have a certain skill set, I have a certain imagination and ability and I've been invaded things all my life and I wanted to do something that meant, something that was beyond buying a bigger house or going on a nicer holiday or whatever, and in that point in my life it was very important. I found something with deeper purpose. So what it feels like now I'm on to the next thing, I'm on to the next thing, I'm on to the next thing, and you know, I want to end energy poverty globally and I want to educate millions and millions of millions of children and give them the opportunity to be the best versions of themselves. And so you're always on to the next thing. But do I look back and go? That was great? Yeah, I guess, maybe sometimes, but I try sort of I'm not a personal patter of the back, I sort of get on with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the humility of it all.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I guess I don't know, but I just that led me into starting Solar Buddy and you know that's a wonderful journey that we've been on for the last seven and a half years and you know, for reading that article, to working with the UN and developing solutions for them and in the Red Cross and different organizations, and then realizing that actually the arrogance of myself and confidence I have in myself which you know can be detrimental in some ways but I felt I could do a better job, so that's why I started Solar Buddy.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that the arrogance, but then the confidence. Yeah, it's the fine balance in life, I think, isn't it walking that line? I remember being at the global awards of Flight Centre in Berlin, if I'm right, you were on that stage talking about Solar Buddy and I remember being in the room where they turned the lights down and everybody held up the little solar buddy lights and we held them up and then the room was filled with light and hearing about that properly for the first time. And it's incredible. Now we have a six-year-old daughter.
Speaker 2:So being able to say to her and I think Holly, who also works in the organization with you, holly's son is a friend of our daughter and I said, oh, guess who we're having on the podcast today and telling her and actually it was yesterday and she said to me this morning she was mom, don't forget, you've got the person who helps the kids be able to read at night so that they can get educated with the light. Isn't that so special? And it was just incredible when you hear, like a six or a seven-year-old's, the way that we can read. I guess you know when we're saying quite complex, that then we can educate or speak to it, to a kid, when you break it down, it's like, yeah, isn't that phenomenal, like being able to give the gift of education in a way that people don't often consider it, and I think, hearing at that Berlin global ball that was the moment where I went wow, I don't think I'd I've well traveled, as you say, and you don't consider that actually these kids don't have light to read, they don't have light to educate themselves.
Speaker 2:So then where are those education opportunities? And in refugee camps, etc. And, yeah, often just thinking about food and water, as you say, it's just, I'd never heard the expression energy poverty, but now I'm, you know, almost feel ashamed that you didn't realize that. But what an incredible, what an incredible discovery, I suppose. So now in can my experience with the solar buddies, packing them up, and, I think, the the corporate side of things, where people would get them in and build them all up, and the STEM systems in the schools as well, can you tell us a little bit about? For those who might not be as familiar, I guess, what is that process with packaging, sending out to communities, whether that's here in Australia or globally?
Speaker 4:sure so few things there. Yeah, that was me on stage. Three and a half thousand people in the Mercedes Benz Arena in Berlin. Yes, in 2018, I think it was yes, it was yeah, that was the largest audience at that point I presented to, which is kind of cool. I didn't quite get the screaming effect that Chris Hans were.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I may or may not have been the woman who ran on the stage.
Speaker 3:I was that crazy lady. You're more famous than me. I like that. You remember that. Yes, it's quite actually.
Speaker 2:I still talk about solar buddy because people go how did, how was it that I was on that stage? I said well, I was volunteering in the solar buddy thing, so I got front row.
Speaker 3:So thank you, solar buddy my pleasure you made your dreams come true, you really did.
Speaker 2:You're helping educate kids across the world and you allowed me the opportunity to meet Chris Hemsworth, or bombard him, but anyway, that's another story. But yes, so three and a half thousand people yeah, yeah, that was cool.
Speaker 4:It was very daunting but it was a, it was a good learning curve. So in Graham Ross obviously wonderful human being he came on stage and held my hand and supported me, so that was a lot of leadership in that as well. But but ultimately, solar buddy. I started solar buddy with the aim to educate millions of children around the world about an issue that they didn't know about energy poverty. And you know we still have children in classrooms that if you ask them what would they not be able to do if they didn't have electricity, they, you know I wouldn't be able to play my playstation or I would be able to charge my iPad and you know, the mere fact that they can't comprehend that a light wouldn't work is still quite profound on them.
Speaker 4:So the idea of solar buddy was to raise this awareness and have this conversation with children in a in a STEM based sort of concept and give them the tools to build something that was practical, tangible, useful to a child. It did live in energy poverty. It's very, very simple. It's, you know, and a big believer in keeping things simple so people can really grasp it and jump on board, and it's kind of what we've done.
Speaker 4:But the corporate side of things. We fell into that when I started a charity. I'd never started a charity before. I'd always been in business and and didn't know what CSI was. I didn't. I didn't know that there was a you know bucket ton of you know deep pockets of money within big corporates. It wanted to help charities. So a girl from a school went home and spoke to her father and that thought her father happened to own a very large company and that was us entering into the CSI space, which ended up with me being on stage at Flight Center and many other stages around the world. So and we've raised millions, millions and millions of millions of dollars on the back of it and changed millions and millions of lives. So that's, that's quite wonderful.
Speaker 4:But the system works very simply, people, now we've changed the model a little bit. We you know Holly runs the education side, which is we have a whole whole range of education opportunities for children from five to fifteen. They can learn about the sustainable development goals and and global citizenship and lots of other things, and they build tangible solutions that we then donate in corporate, in the corporate space, we do a lot of team building. So, you know, people come together, they have fun, they learn, they listen, they have an activity and then and then we donate those lights to the communities that need them. And we've we donate. I generally don't know how many lights we donated, to be honest with you, but but it's a lot and that's all in seven and a half short years of me starting on my dining room table and and until I resigned last Friday oh my goodness, really oh my goodness, and you're still here today.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, oh wow, okay. What's next?
Speaker 4:yeah, well, um, I I think part of leadership is planning for the future. Right, and find a proof in what you, what you develop and, you know, always finding the, the people that can, that can do a better job than you, and encouraging them to be strong enough and capable to do that. Um, so I've been finding a proof in solar buddy from the last five years. So I stepped down as see global CEO and stepped up into chair. My board are saying, I must say, I stepped up into the chair. Yeah, it's an important role and it's a grown-up role and you know, I'm 50 in my, so one day I should grow up. So, um, so this is the time. But, um, but I set up a company called Befford citizens about three years ago, which is a head company mine and the subsidiaries underneath that. They're all social enterprises. So, um, that's what's next.
Speaker 4:I'm planning on taking that to an IPO and hopefully, the next five to seven years in around 2030 hopefully when we've achieved the sustainable development goals and hit those targets, and all my companies are aligned with the SDGs, so hitting an IPO around there would be really, really good fun yeah, wow, congratulations.
Speaker 2:When you said resign, I thought you completely out, but now you've got your big boy job congratulations you're serious that's awesome transition, a promotion in some ways, wow what, um, I guess you talked about. You know the UN goals and I guess the drive is behind things like do you have your own personal values that are important to you, that you have articulated or that you live by intentionally?
Speaker 4:yes, um, I'm an atheist, but I believe in just doing good in the world. I believe that just because I'm a white, middle-aged male born in England doesn't necessarily give me privilege beyond other circumstances and we have a responsibility to be aware of that and those morals and obligations and responsibilities I carry and I feel that it's we should level the plane, feel a little bit more and lift lift people that don't have the same opportunities up and and be, you know, be willing and and and really consider how to do that, just tokenistic. You know, I carry those morals deeply, I've been doing that all my life and I will continue to do that the rest of my life.
Speaker 4:Um, you know, even before reading the time article, I you know I would invest time in youth and apprenticeships, and you know different different things that I used to do, just to try and help where I could, you know, and I learned that from my parents and in my upbringing but I think just generally just try and be a good, decent human being, you know, um, say hello to people in the street and and make conversation with people that look like they need, you know, an arm around their shoulder, sort of stuff. That's kind of the morals I try and live by and I sometimes I can be the person that needs the arm around my shoulder, you know. So it's uh, I think you put out into the world, you get back, and if you put positivity and kindness and and patience and support, then I think there's a ripple effect.
Speaker 2:It goes on that yeah, I subscribe to that too. I think it's so, so important, so important. Um, I'm wondering on a slightly different perspective. I don't know how many countries you've traveled to.
Speaker 2:I'm imagining you've seen quite 106 wow that's yeah, wow, great, okay, I just want a whole day speaking to you about that. Um. 106, that's just awesome. Can you tell us whichever one's come to mind? Because 106 there's a lot of experiences there, but of the different cultures you've experienced, what are some great lessons um that you think the world needs to learn from the way that people live um as community. I think like connection and community what are some? Of the big stories or lessons you've learned from them.
Speaker 4:I was asked this the other day. Actually, I did a keynote in Melbourne and one of the questions from the audience was very similar and it was you know, what have I learned from the travels and stuff and what I see in impoverished communities and developing economy countries and people that we might perceive, or my perceivers? They have little material Assets, I guess, but they have each other and they don't. I think the Tangible physical Demonstration of that is there's no garden fences, there's no brick walls, there's no security gates, there's no, there's no. This is my land and it's your land.
Speaker 4:It's, it's community, you know and and that hits you when, when you walk in and You're willing to observe and soaking what you're seeing in the culture that you're experiencing, that hits you. And I try and do that everywhere I go. And if I Unfortunate enough to go to a new country, I try and go two or three days early and soak in that environment and understand the culture. But when I go to communities in, you know, madagascar or other parts of the world that you know I'm very fortunate to go to, it's that spirit that I see. It's, you know, we're here to help each other and we're not competing against each other and it's not keeping up with the Joneses, because they've got a new BMW and I want a new BMW, and all that nonsense.
Speaker 4:It's, it's, you know, they help each other and they, you know, and I think that's really important, and I saw that in COVID as well. I think we all saw that yes suddenly Neighbors were helping neighbors a lot more and you know, looking after the elderly in the community and different things like that, and I think that was a wonderful outcome of COVID. If there was anything positive that they come out of COVID, that was it, and I think we need to Get back to that a little bit more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you reckon, do you feel like potentially, people have Forgotten a little bit of that from COVID? I mean like where they were? Yeah, it's just.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. It's got back to the grind. I guess you know and especially with Sort of interest rates, you know some uncertainties around what's going on in the economy here in Australia and elsewhere around the world. But you know there's very much that. Oh you know, if I don't keep pushing forward, what is going to happen to me? Well, you know people around you that May need that I'm around their shoulder a little bit more than you need to earn an extra hundred quid or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, isn't that the truth? Yes, one of the questions I think that I'm really curious about it, I guess maybe from the travels and the communities, like are there leadership traits that you see globally Across different communities, that are universal leadership traits, that that stand out, that a trend? They transcend culture, I suppose, or cultural norms?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think there's, you know there's, there's, there's a 99% and it's the 1% right, and you can use that in an economic One of you or a leadership point of view, or whatever. But I think there's people that are just born leaders, right, and and you know it's, it's, it's a way of Identifying it. You know you'll take on responsibility and my mother always taught me that you know, and don't look at the people running away from a problem. What's the people running towards the problem?
Speaker 4:And and that was always profound for me and and I think they're the leaders right and you know I've been fortunate enough to experience that first-hand in war zones and you know I've been exposed to things that you know Humans should be exposed to. But you know I've always had the fortunate ability to leave and it's a struggle to do that, knowing that people are left behind, but but it's the ones that Put a hand up and own a problem and own what's in front of them and Protect the people around them that you see that in every form of life.
Speaker 4:I'm sure it's again in a village in Madagascar, or it's in, you know, tenerife, where I live in Brisbane. It's, it's, you know, there's leaders that will take on the responsibility and stand in front of people and deal with what's necessary, and and it's not. It's not.
Speaker 4:Machoistic whatever it's it's it's just, I think it's just inbuilt, and some people to to take on that responsibility and know with it that it's not a chore for them, it's not, it's not ego-tistical, it's not, it's not a Thing that they're gonna get credit for. It's just in their psyche and in their makeup. And you know, I know there's a lot people that do do it for those reasons and certainly not gonna pat them on the back. But I Think the ones that just take on that responsibility because they know fundamentally is the right thing to do, for credit to them you know, hmm, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Simon, what kind of things do you do to develop yourself today?
Speaker 4:I listen. I don't know if I'm gonna talk about it. I.
Speaker 1:I.
Speaker 4:Observe, I listen, I read, I try and listen to anybody and everybody and and learn from them. You know there's a cliche saying treat the janitor the same as the CEO, and all that. But you know, I believe that I can learn from a five-year-old kid as much as I can learn from a 95 year-old. You know XC, over fortune 500 and anybody and everybody in between, and so I think again, I was taught at a very young age you got two ways and one mouth mate, like use them in proportion, and I try and do that. So that's how I do that up. But quite often I get asked to talk, so I Said this is a byproduct of your family journey.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah basically, I read a lot of books, audibles, great, you know. But um, but yeah, I just, I just love humans, I just love stories, I just love listening. I went out for dinner with a beautiful girl the other night and just listen to her life story. You know, it's very, very special. I just love that it's so rich and and Grounding as well, you know I.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so great as a great listener. Do you have questions that you ask that maybe people could use more frequently? But what are some of your favourite questions to ask people that really open up great conversation?
Speaker 4:It gives you goosebumps. Ah it makes your eyes brighten.
Speaker 1:What makes you spark?
Speaker 4:I think that's really important in the human spirit.
Speaker 4:So know what makes you tick. You know I don't think you can look into somebody's soul until you know what those things are. You can't really get to know someone until you get those answers, and quite a lot of people are put off by those sorts of questions or that interaction and conversation. You don't necessarily have to act right what gives you goosebumps and I tell me the answer. I just love to be inquisitive on people's lives and what makes them tick, and when their eyes light up, they talk about something that they're passionate about. I think that's true wonder yes.
Speaker 4:I love that.
Speaker 2:I actually just want to ask you what gives you goosebumps now. But I know you said not today then that way, having done this for seven years and now moving into something else, what is that really is lighting you up? No pun intended or pun intended, but what are those moments for you in, say, the last six months? What have been some of those moments that have really lit you up?
Speaker 4:There's so many. Every day's a goosebumps day really. We set up a business in February. It's now scaled into 21 countries. In less than a year it signed into another two countries yesterday.
Speaker 2:What business?
Speaker 4:what part is that? It's a network of team building companies that will be doing all our team building activities globally, so I never expected that to scale quite so fast, but it's a wonderful thing that we're on and that's very exciting. Now I can easily get back to what I'm good at, which is working with my design team, my industrial design experts, and develop new products and new solutions to help more people, and that's where I'd love to be, so that's been nice to be able to get back to that With developing a board game. It's going to be a good seller and raise a lot of awareness and interaction around what's level in the playing field and talk about that sort of conversation into family homes about maybe monopoly isn't how you make the world a better place.
Speaker 2:Buying more property, more property, more property.
Speaker 4:So we're looking at those sorts of dynamics and how we do that. I'm working on a range of children's books, which is kind of fun because I'm a big kid myself. I wrote a series of children's books about 15 years ago and they went really well. We're doing a new series, so there's a lot of really fun, creative projects that I can now get my teeth into, which is nice, and I still very much across the workings in day to day of SolarBuddy, but no more creative stuff which gives me goosebumps.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can see it in your face.
Speaker 4:Yes, I can see it if that's your happy place, yeah, I just love to tinker and create and we're working on wheelchairs and disability devices for children in India and Africa, and there's a million and one things that we're working on and I just know that they're going to make an impact. I just know they're going to make a difference and that fills me with a lot of joy.
Speaker 2:Beautiful. With so much in the world that needs to be done, how do you stay focused? Well, in some ways saying there's a multi-focus, but how do you stay focused when, I guess, you turn up into these countries and these communities and just see so many challenges and it would be heartbreaking that we only how do you keep that focus without feeling like you just want to fix everything?
Speaker 4:Yes, good question. So I'm an investor's nightmare, right. I've been told to focus once. I've been told to focus a thousand times or a million times, but to me focus is variety and some people can spin one plate and do it very, very well and they do that for 30 years and good on them.
Speaker 4:But before the me spinning one plate, I won't be able to do it very well.
Speaker 4:I'll be the worst one plate spinner possible, but you know spinning 30 plates is I can do that and you know I'm a single guy and my children are grown up. I have a lot of time and a lot of energy and I don't work. I don't get up and clock in and sit in traffic and so I have a lot of time that I can invest in so many projects. And when you truly, truly, truly love what you do, it's not work, it's sheer passion and drive and I'm so privileged to have that and so grateful that I have that. So it enables me to do lots of things and be involved in lots of teams and come up with different ideas and stuff. But yeah, you want to try and do everything, but there comes a point where you have to narrow the focus down a little bit and set project plans out and set deadlines in place and, okay, let's accomplish that and get that to market, but you've always got the next one 30%, 40% there.
Speaker 4:And it just goes on like that. It's pretty standard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that the 30 plates are resonating with me. A little.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's great, yeah, totally does.
Speaker 2:I think you would prefer if I just had one plate at times, but I don't feel like one's enough, it's never enough.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm loving this and I'm learning a lot and I've written down and it may or may not be the episode title, but every day is a goosebump day. I think that for me, if I hear nothing else today, that could be a goal for mine for every day, I think, and even to the point where you said it and I kind of tears welling up my eyes because I think, oh, not every day is like that. And then sometimes I get caught for myself in a bit of a vortex of kind of like oh, why isn't it like that? What's going on? What's wrong with me? And just this circular motion. But you know what, if you strive for those goose bumps every day and those moments of connection with people, that's how it would come for me the moments of connection you get to see someone's soul. It's an absolute privilege. You cherish that moment and that just makes it all worthwhile. And then everything else just kind of goes quiet and fades away, right, because you're just in there. So thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 4:Oh, my pleasure. And not every day is a goosebump day, but you can have the mindset that it can be right and I jump out of bed and have a shower and I pump the music up and it's like all right, let's do this. It's changed the world and some people can be, wow, that's a little bit too much, mate. But if you don't get that mindset, then how can you? So, yeah, try and live with that philosophy you can manifest it and get on with it.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, from a travel perspective, more your own personal travel Where's somewhere you've been that you're happy never to return to, because I reckon everyone's going to ask you where's your favourite and where's this, but where's somewhere you've been that you thought I'm okay not to go back there, and is there a reason why?
Speaker 4:Wow, okay, I'll be very careful here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or maybe we can exit that question too.
Speaker 4:There's not many. To be honest with you, I've enjoyed and experienced most countries that I've gone to. I landed in Russia the day after they shot the plane over Ukraine. That was kind of hairy.
Speaker 2:And the timing has just had already been planned. It was just a coincidence of timing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so that was kind of a long, but Russia's obviously run by a despot, but ultimately it's still a beautiful country. But yeah, that's a really hard question. There's parts of America that I struggle with because of my liberalism and mindset. I've been a little bit out of Texas and it's all way too many guns and no sorts of things but each their own, and that's how they live, and I'm not judgmental. But there's parts of America that I probably wouldn't rush back to because of those sorts of things.
Speaker 4:But now I've been in Iraq, I've been in Syria, afghanistan, pakistan, places that Somalia. I've spent a long time in Somalia, sudan, south Sudan, chad, all across sub-Saharan Africa. Some people will be like scary places. Right, I've seen things that not many people would ever want to experience again. But you still learn from that. But yeah, I think there's parts of America that are just a little bit above the surface and how they go about things that don't sit very well with me.
Speaker 2:I'll politely say yeah, I appreciate that answer because half of me I was expecting you to say it, like everywhere you learn from, but yeah, it's probably not what people expect, is it? Yeah, that's cool, that's great. Is there anywhere that you, from a travel perspective, wish more people could take their kids at the right age? Appropriate, but more for an educational perspective? Where are some countries or communities that you think would be really enriching for families?
Speaker 4:I think anywhere and everywhere. I just had the utter joy of travelling Europe with my daughter she's 19,. First time in Europe for my daughter, Luca. I took her to London for the first time in Belgium and Holland, in France, in Portugal, in Italy, and just seeing Europe through her eyes. And we went to the Cops Worlds in Somerset, where I grew up, and Oxford and it was far more moving for me to see it through her eyes than it was when I experienced it when I was her age.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 4:And that was beautiful and so I'd encourage. I think the world is just one big encyclopedia that we just need to consume right In a positive way.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 4:And leave a positive mark and leave a positive memory. I think there's too much in the world that we go to a certain place and we don't leave a positive footprint and that needs to change a little bit. But that's not going to change overnight. But going with the mindset that you can leave a positive footprint, I think is important. But seeing the eyes of the world, seeing the world through the eyes of your children, is priceless, utterly priceless.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so good. I have one more random travel. This is a random one but because you have traveled and do travel a lot. What is in your must pack things? What do you always travel with?
Speaker 4:I only carry, carry on. I never pack check-in, ever.
Speaker 2:Just because it's ineffective, or your bags get lost or you don't need that much Both, really, all of the above yeah.
Speaker 4:I wear everything matches. So four colors white, gray, blue, black. That's it. So I'm a very efficient packer. My daughter, when we went to Europe she was like holy cow, I'm like you're only carrying, carry on. So there was a little bit of a learning curve there for Luca. But, yeah, very efficient packer, no check-in. I've had, obviously over the years, lost baggage and stuff and it's painful, so try and avoid that. But also just being able to move fast and be agile and do all those sorts of things. But yeah, everything matches.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's effective. Do you travel with a camera? No, a phone with a camera yeah yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 4:I'm not a tourist. I don't do touristy things. I watch and I listen and I learn, and I sit in a cafe and just watch the world go by and I go to tourist places and things like that I did with my daughter. Obviously we went to Oxford and, of course, worlds, but when I go now all I do is work when I travel. So I think I'm going to Vienna in a couple of weeks for a keynote there at the big climate conference and I'll go two or three days before.
Speaker 4:I've been in Vienna for like 20 years, you know. So I'll go there and have a look around and just absorb the culture and the climate and see different things and then from there I go to Thailand for another conference and some meetings with some companies. So it sounds a little bit more glamorous than it is, but it's fun. It's fun, it's enjoyable, but it's impactful. It's all building what we're doing, having conversations with the right people. So a lot of chief sustainability officers now that big companies that want to talk to us about what we're doing, which is very exciting. And you know, seven, eight, nine, ten years ago, when I first started doing this, there wasn't a CSO. Yeah, nobody had a CSO.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Now all these big companies have CSOs and we get the privilege of sitting down with them, which is really nice.
Speaker 2:It's really phenomenal to think about that impact and even talking about the UN sustainable goals, like what you know. Years ago, what even were there? Like I don't think people even knew that they existed, and now it's becoming a little bit more, not everywhere, but still more common, common language, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's great, really important, really important.
Speaker 2:For companies that, and maybe a lot of the clients we work with, for example might be more that SME level and I mean obviously listeners will come from anywhere but for the companies who aren't really large, where they've got the ability to have that kind of crossing from a people perspective, a financial perspective, what impact can you say that smaller businesses can have? Because they might have these desires but they don't always have the numbers in people or money. But what are your thoughts or tips there?
Speaker 4:I think the SME space is such a golden opportunity. I think they individually, yes, they're small, but collectively they're huge. Right, you know by far and away the largest employers in most developed economies, but they sit in silos and through associations, and I think there's a lot of work to be done within the associations of small businesses. I'll pick the Australian Association of Hairdressers. I don't even know if that exists, but I just walked past a barb on the way here.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:But I think they have a responsibility to bring their association members together to talk about what the future of the workplace looks like and be leaders in this episode of our history, which is the climate crisis and managing it, and what they can have a voice within that.
Speaker 4:I think that's really important. Smes generally somebody to start a small and medium enterprise takes a lot of guts and their leaders in themselves, and quite often they will respectfully work in their own income and be happy with their own income and their own business. But I think the fact that they've done that themselves and they've taken the initiative to start their own business, then, whether they employ two people or 20,000 people, they're still leaders. They're still able to influence change and I think giving them the platform to have that voice is really important, and is that something that we're working on and Holly's working on?
Speaker 4:that and a few other people in the team are doing that as well, so I think there's a wonderful opportunity to bring them into the narrative. That isn't just government and large ASX, it's collectively. We can influence change and be important members of this conversation as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So important to realise every voice and every business person can have the impact that it has to be something huge.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so important.
Speaker 3:So when you walked in here today, one of the first things we talked about was books on the shelf, and I know we've touched a little bit on that, but what books are on your bedside table at the moment or in your audible player?
Speaker 4:You're reading a book about parental alienation, which is another thing that not many people know too much about, and it's a book about working and understanding your children that have experienced parental alienation from their point of view. So that's what I'm reading right now.
Speaker 1:Interesting. I'm interested to learn a little bit more about that.
Speaker 3:Kind of join the dots together in my mind about what that could mean, which is probably totally, totally off base.
Speaker 4:So I don't really talk about this too much, but you know you are, so I'm reading a book about it. But parental alienation is a huge social problem across the world and it's where a married couple go through a divorce or separation. One parent can weaponize the children to dislike, or grow to dislike, the other parent, and it's a major cause of mental health issues and divorced parents and it's a large cause of suicide amongst divorced parents and it's utterly traumatic for the children.
Speaker 4:Of course. It's dysfunction in many facets of their lives and you know I spent 12 years without any access to my children and I was one of those almost one of those statistics, and that's why I do what I do to bring the light to children and their families, so they can spend time together, Because I didn't have the opportunity. So that's why I'm reading that book.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thank you. I imagine, then, that experience with Luca would have been even more special. Now, understanding that too, yeah, wow.
Speaker 3:Thanks for sharing that. Simon, one of my best friends, is kind of going through that and has gone through that, so I imagine, if they're lucky enough to hear this, that might mean something to them. So thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 4:There's always light at the end of the tunnel, you know, and it's the same as not, how hard you hit the bottom, how high your bank's back. And I'm proud that I hit the bottom, there's no doubt about that. I hit the bottom and emotionally, physically, financially, spiritually, in every possible way I hit the bottom, but I bank's back and I bank's back stronger. And somebody asked me the other day what I'm my proudest of outside of influencing and changing lives and all the rest of it. What am I proudest of in myself?
Speaker 4:And it was sucking in that pain and that hurt and that injustice and not really understanding why it was an injustice and not really understanding why this was happening, not just to me but to my children. You know, very simply minded. But I sucked that in and I turned it into. I didn't with respect to the guy who dressed in the Spidey Night outfit and climbed the Harbour Bridge, you know, with respect to whoever that guy is, good luck to you. I didn't do that. I sucked it in and turned it into changing millions of lives for the better and in honour and in the name of my children. That's probably what I'm most proudest of personally.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's beautiful, thank you. Thank you. Can I ask if you're willing to? Are there practices when we're talking about mental health and bouncing back or forward or whatever expression? Are there practices that have been useful for you to get into that headspace?
Speaker 4:Yeah, surround yourself with people that love you and believe in you and support you and have patience for you and hold your hand and be that person or people that will put their arm around you when you need it and not be too proud to take that. I just spent a weekend with my sister and brother-in-law, who I loved dearly, and they were there for me and they put the ladder in the bucket and helped me climb out, you know as did my parents, and so I think that's a thing that men struggle with being vulnerable enough to accept that they are in that deep dark place in the first place.
Speaker 4:you know, and then being vulnerable enough to accept help. That's the first step. And then trusting that things will work out, one from in front of the other, day after day, reassuring yourself in the mirror that it's going to be okay, you know. And one day you'll be reconnected. One day it will be special. One day you'll walk down the beach, like you know, and not cry your eyes out because they're not with you, but cry your eyes out because they are with you.
Speaker 2:So beautiful, so beautiful. Thank you Thank you Okay?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've got lots of thoughts on that and lots of things to say. Do you mind if I ask another question about that? Go for it. On the, it said 12 years without being with your kids. Can you talk us through at what point you got back together, I guess? And what did that? What did that look like? How did that come? How did that come to play to celebrate the moment that it is now?
Speaker 4:Well, so I live in Tenerife. I live in one of the law schools in Tenerife which anybody outside of Brisbane probably doesn't know what I'm talking about but and there's a coffee shop in my building and I go there every morning for breakfast because I'm the world's worst cook and I starve otherwise, but I know obviously everyone that works in there. And I was sat there one morning reading my phone and laptop and eating my breakfast and I got an Instagram message and it was from my youngest son, Will, and it was hey, mate, how are you? Do you want to catch up sometime? I don't think I'm going to cry, so stay with me, but I just burst into tears and it was like, it was like I don't know.
Speaker 4:It was like a shield of armour that just melted away, you know. And obviously the guys who were working the coffee shop came out and said hello and what was up, because they've never seen me cry before. And then obviously they knew, you know, they know, and then that was a very special moment to share with people that are kind and end up being with me. And then I saw my son for the first time in 12 years, four days later, wow.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 3:Wow, Wow, that's incredible. Thank you, oh, that's absolutely incredible. Thank you again for sharing that with us. How many kids do you have? Three. You know, the part of that story that I'm kind of I'm resonated with the most is you talked about you got three other kids. How did you come to reconnect with the two others as well?
Speaker 4:Yes, it's, I don't know. It's such a strange experience to comprehend. You know, it's ironic that I work in a space of energy poverty that is fairly unknown, and you know, my job is to raise awareness about what that is. But then you talk about parent to alienation and there's so many people that you know that experience it, but it's this big white elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about, right? So I'm there in both worlds One, nobody knows about it and I'm trying to get them to talk about it, and one, everyone knows about it but doesn't want to talk about it. And the irony is it lost on me.
Speaker 4:But after a will reached out and this bravery of will at you know, at 14, to reach out and do that, I was so proud of him for that and we, you know, we caught up in Sunshine Beach and he ended up coming up with me and whatnot. And then, about three months later, my daughter, who's two years older than Will, luca. She reached out on Instagram as well and said well, hey, you're spending time with Will. I guess I should get to know you and it was very much a big sister kind of thing and it was very sweet. But and we, you know, obviously got together and had lunch, and it was probably one of the most special days of my life. And then in February this year, two years later, my eldest son actually reached out. We've had two beers together. So we're building bridges, life's good.
Speaker 1:Oh, so beautiful he certainly is.
Speaker 3:Thank you for these goosebumps moments today.
Speaker 4:Makes it all worth while you know that's so awesome.
Speaker 2:What do they think about the work you're doing in the world?
Speaker 4:I don't think they really grasp it. To be perfectly honest with you, they were very, very smart and beautiful and talented, but I'm also very modest. I guess that's even the right word to say. But it's all about them. You know, I think the thing I say most is there's always been for you. Every single light is a star in the sky that has got your name on it.
Speaker 4:And you know, I know that I wouldn't be doing what I do if I hadn't gone through that. So the pain that they've experienced and the pain that I've experienced and the pain that my parents have experienced, and my sisters and brothers and cousins and nieces and nephews have all experienced it. There's millions of children's lives being improved, just a little bit Illuminated, just a little bit Safer. On the back of that. I hope they hear that it's not about standing on stage and talking and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:I don't think the thought and the year or whatever it is you get labeled.
Speaker 4:It's at the fundamental level. That's why I've done what I've done, so my children might be proud of me and hopefully they are.
Speaker 2:I'm certainly proud of them. Beautiful Thank you, and I hope, proud of yourself too, if you allow yourself to be. I'm not sure of it.
Speaker 4:No, it's too much to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll accept that one, thank you. Thank you, one of the questions that we always love to ask at the end of our conversation, but I think, if not the last one, but it's definitely into me where we're talking here. What's the kindest thing and perhaps we've just heard the three of them actually, but what's one of the kindest things anyone has ever done for you?
Speaker 4:For me, it's the small acts, it's the daily acts of kindness that just make the world a better place. They're the things that add up. It's not this one grandiose thing or gesture or whatever. It's the little things that turn into big things because they mean so much. The smile, the handshake, are you okay today?
Speaker 1:How are?
Speaker 4:you doing, walking into the coffee shop and saying good day to you. You know the barista that's working their ass off behind the coffee shop floor and just asking how their day is, you know, and vice versa. Those interactions to me is kindness. You can make people feel a million dollars just by being present in those moments and I think that's the epitome of kindness to me anyway. But a couple examples beyond that.
Speaker 4:I announced two weeks ago whatever ten days ago that I resigned from operationally running the Solar Buddy and you know I privately emailed a lot of people and spoke to people on the phone, but I also posted on LinkedIn, obviously, and I got this beautiful message from the head of a foundation he just retired from her role, actually that working with Solar Buddy was the highlight of her career and working with me, which really struck me. You know that's brave to put that out there and LinkedIn and to share that with me, and that was kind. You know she didn't have to do that and I thought that was quite special. Just the little things you know, like just buying coffee for someone or just being there to listen and be there.
Speaker 4:That's what I think a lot of people miss is kindness. Isn't about, like I say, these huge gestures of you know, buying people presents or whatever. It's listening, it's learning, it's letting people share their stories with you and know that they're being heard and know that you give a shit, and that, to me, is all. Kindness is all that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it sure is. And I think when you travel, it's one of those things, isn't it? When you come out of your daily bubble, when you can go and observe other people's ways of living and their cultures, and especially when you don't speak the same language, I think smiling and eye contact, like that energy exchange is like wow.
Speaker 4:It's so funny to say that when I worked for the UN, you know, I ended up in Australia because I can't speak any languages right, I'm atrocious at languages and cooking.
Speaker 1:There's quite a few things I'm atrocious at actually.
Speaker 4:But I ended up in Australia because I spun a bottle in Cambodia and I had a triangle on the dirt and it was a beer bottle when I was drunk and I had New Zealand, Australia and California and spun a bottle in Atlanta and Australia. And here I am.
Speaker 2:Legitimately. That was awesome.
Speaker 4:But obviously all three English-speaking states or countries. But when I worked for the UN and you have to have bilingual at least to work for the UN?
Speaker 4:I'm not, but I was a consultant, I was a contractor, I don't really matter. You say to me how do you get on, how do you communicate in Somalia or Ethiopia or wherever you are in the world? When I smile that's my language I put my arm around him, if it's appropriate, or on their shoulder, and smile and reassure them that I'm here to help and I'm here to listen and we're going to be all right, and I think that's the language of kindness and all we need to do, really.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, yeah, and be out of our own head and our own shit for a minute. You know like to be here, to be connected with someone, to listen, to be in that space, to be present for them. The more that people can do that in this world, the busy other world is getting and the crazier it's getting, the more we need it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I think if you can demonstrate that you know coming back to leadership and courage and all those things like that If you can demonstrate that in your DNA and it's just how you are, then you're demonstrating to children, young adults, future leaders that that's how. I'm not saying it's the right way. I believe it's the right way, but it's a way that can make people feel easy and feel confident and comfortable and open up to you, so you get to be authentic with each other and I think that's a huge strength in that.
Speaker 2:Yes, it sure is.
Speaker 3:Simon, I'm not sure what you've got on for the rest of the day. I'm just thinking in terms of what I've got on for the rest of the day too, but I think what's that got to do with anything.
Speaker 3:It's actually got nothing to do with anything.
Speaker 3:I think I'm just fighting ways to feel the silence, to feel my sentence.
Speaker 3:Oh, this has been a real gift for me to hear you say this today, and I believe, when we think about leading with courage and the reason that we wanted to do a podcast was to showcase human moments and human experiences like this, by the way of leadership, lessons to be learned from people's stories is, you know, you're going to organically get that, but the opportunity today to meet you and to connect with you and to see your heart and hear your stories. You know, when we asked about the book on your bedside table or in Audubon, we didn't know that that would take us down that track, but I'm so grateful that it did and I'll thank you for your courage and your vulnerability because I think, with leading with that courage to talk about that story today, I'm no doubt that it will impact someone somewhere who might be on a similar journey, and then it goes full circle to know that there's moments of optimism and moments of hope out there for them to keep pushing. So thank you for that.
Speaker 4:Pleasure and it's. You know, it's not a uniquely male story. It's both sides and I'm very open to that and I'm not judgmental and I haven't pointed to blame anyone. Circumstances happen and that's what it is, but ultimately it's an issue, and it's a huge issue and it's a generational issue, and one of my, one of my jobs, moving forward, is trying to build either platform. Obviously. Platform is growing internationally and you know, I'm becoming braver and and neither I'm reconnecting with my children. It's becoming easier for me to go to that place because it's not full of pain anymore, it's full of joy, and so I hope to hopefully, gently, respectfully, put a spotlight on some of these issues globally, as well as the energy poverty issues that I'm renowned for. So we'll see how we go.
Speaker 2:Thank you for the light that you bring to this world and really appreciate this time. It's been really special.
Speaker 4:Thank you, thank you very much, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you For next time. Go and lead with courage.
