Lead with Courage
Together with your hosts Cherie and Andy Canning, you'll dive into the minds of the trailblazers, the risk takers and those who embrace life with a growth mindset .
Get ready for real and raw conversations where authentic truths are revealed, uncovering the struggles and resilience required to bounce back.
We invite you to see this podcast as your compass to embracing your own courage to live your biggest, best life!
Lead with Courage
Damian Hackett | Find your Happy Place, the Founder's Journey | Lead with Courage
This week we are excited to welcome one of the most successful, yet humble humans in the real estate world, the CEO and Co-Founder of Place Estate agents, Damian Hackett.
This episode is not just about real estate; it's about the core of every successful business - vision, mission, and values.
We delve into the significance of creating a clear organisational vision and discuss the necessity of a leader who acts on these values.
We take it a step further as we dig into the complexities of leading a family business, exploring the balance between work and family life and how Damian embraces the "learn it all, not know it all culture."
This is a great listen for those who want to hear how to build a powerful and enduring business and find your own happiness through it all.
#podcast #leadwithcouragepodcast #realestate #CEO #founder
Did you enjoy the episode? Send us a text!
______________
Thanks for joining us on the Lead with Courage podcast, bought to you by Luminate Leadership. We trust this episode has given you some insights and joy to empower you live your biggest, best life.
If you enjoyed it, we'd be grateful if you like, share and subscribe to hear our future conversations.
To find out more about the work we do Luminate Leadership connect with us:
Luminate's Website and LinkedIn and on
Instagram : Luminate_Leadership and Cherie Canning
Until the next episode, we hope you live and Lead with Courage!
Cherie and Andy x
______________
Luminate Leadership is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14.
Amy and Hackett welcome to the Lead with Courage podcast. Fantastic to be here, Thank you. Thanks so much for coming in today and shout out to the camera Just a little bit over there. That'll take a little bit for me to get used to, but I'm really grateful that you could, you know, spare an hour or so with us today and talk us through the place journey. I've got so many questions probably not as many as Cherie, but I'm sure she'll lead in there so first question I'd like to kick off with is what does Lead with Courage mean to you?
Speaker 1:Lead with.
Speaker 2:Courage. Courage is not a word that I'd use, but I think what it means to me is probably confidence, and I think that's in a leadership position. It's you've got a set of values in an organisation. It's the ability to actually make decisions in line with that, particularly if you've got people who might be making a contribution financially that's maybe more significant than others and if they're carrying on a behaviour that it is maybe not aligned with the values. So Courage comes from being able to actually stick to the principles and have the confidence to say that OK, this is more important in the business. That's, I guess, one of the areas where I think about Courage. They're probably some of the courageous decisions that people have to make from a cultural perspective of an organisation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I'm curious and if you weren't to use the word Courage, what other words, the more that kind of things, would you use?
Speaker 2:I think it's confidence. Yeah it's probably the word Leading with confidence and not overconfidence.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:We're the only way to salvation, type of thing. Yeah it's more so. You know, being clear in a direction, clearing where you want to get to and helping to lead people along the way. I think that's the basic kind of definition of what leadership is. It's having a really strong vision about where you want to go, what you want to achieve and how you want to achieve it, and then being able to communicate it very well with the people that you work with.
Speaker 3:Yeah, beautiful, and I think that's a big reason why we've got you on today. We've been working with Place Now I think, about 18 months. I was tracking back in my mind and yeah, you're fabulous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for what you guys do. It's been a great time. It's been a great time. Oh, thank you. It's been amazing feedback, oh thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3:I appreciate that and I think for us watching the brand and me getting to know you and getting to work with the brand as well like it's a prestige real estate brand and what I think is really beautiful is the humility and that confidence, but, as you just said, about to be aligned with the values, and so we want to chat a little bit about that today.
Speaker 3:But I'd love to go back to the beginning of real estate for you, because I think it's always great to hear the backstory and how you got into real estate. I think Place is 21 years old, 20.
Speaker 2:21 years old.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, would you take us back, I guess, to the early days, and Damien Hackett how far back do you want to go? Well, how long have we got here but.
Speaker 1:I guess, I'm going to start with how old are you? No, no, we don't, I'm 54. Okay.
Speaker 3:That's not old, or you're just talking about in the 50s.
Speaker 1:How young are you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, what got you into real estate, and can you tell us a little bit of before Place and then we'll talk about how Place came about in the 21-year journey?
Speaker 2:Okay, a bit of a brief history then. I grew up in Brisbane, born in North Queensland, but came here when I was really young. Family moved back, wasn't born in England, I went to school locally. I think I did well in probably business at school. Also, biology was pretty high. I did fairly well in biology but again it was an area which I didn't think I could see a future.
Speaker 2:I did an accounting degree my father had an accounting practice, went through that and while I was studying I also realised about halfway through that probably wasn't the area that I wanted to end up in professionally. But I completed the degree and actually did some work within the family practice the accounting practice, which is a tax practice and at the time I decided, after looking at different things the two things that really excited me was advertising and property and after talking to a few different, I guess, clients or friends of my father who were in the different businesses, I think I landed on property as a career path where not only could you, I guess, get to work in a business that was exciting and once you got to understand it it was also a way of, I guess, creating wealth because, I think there's a lot of success and wealth generated in different industries.
Speaker 2:I think back in the 80s this was probably the middle 80s, I think it was tech was just starting to come through, but it was like mining and property. You all seem to be people that have done quite well. There's a great chance that you could have success that way. And I think at the time, commercial properties what it jumped into first work for a company called Jones Lang Wooden which is now Jones Lang LaSalle commercial property. I was in investment sales selling shopping centers and things like that. At the time it was probably 18, 19. So I have no idea what I was doing. I was trying to get in the deep end Attempting to sell a shopping center, did he even cross the?
Speaker 1:table from Frank Lowe or something like that.
Speaker 2:Well, there was a bunch of people there that were in Melbourne that bought a lot of things. They probably laughed when I was on the phone having to chat to them about things. But again it was a learning curve. Then there was a client, layton Properties, who a big Layton's, a big, I guess, builder contractor they had a development arm went to work with them for a couple of years as a development manager. They'd sold some sites in that point in time. So again it was in that property sector, but more on the development arm. And then with a couple of mates I think it would have been in 91. So it was just 21, 22. We decided to set up a residential agency and we set that up in Morningside in the eastern suburbs.
Speaker 3:Which is where we're recording Right now.
Speaker 2:That was 32 years ago. 32 years ago, yeah, what year is it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, it is 23.
Speaker 2:It's 23 years ago and then we were a franchise of a brand there for about 10 years. Those two partners of mine like any new business, we didn't know necessarily what we were doing. Yeah, the accounting background and the commercial background Since the first few years were tough. They decided to move on to other areas and have been successful in other areas. I stayed with it. Probably about six, seven years later I had a couple of sales people join me Paul Curtin and Sarah Wischel at the time who then developed and came really, really great at what they did. And then, as they progressed in 2001, we decided to branch off and create place as partners. We started that 21 years ago. Wow, it's been a progression.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and here in Boling, when was that your first place? It?
Speaker 2:was in Oxford Street. So the business that we had up in Morningside we moved down to Oxford Street in about. It was about 97.
Speaker 3:Wow, yeah, and Paul's now. All three of you are obviously still in the business and Paul takes charge of lots of things, but also the. Bolimba office and now the One Group.
Speaker 2:Yeah, One Group which covers the East and suburbs. So they've got three offices, but they're mostly there in Bolimba and out at Camp Hill and they have everywhere, from Carondale all the way through here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, great.
Speaker 2:That's the. I guess the genesis of the business was from the office that we started in Morningside in 91. And it's kind of grown since then.
Speaker 3:It's amazing, amazing, and one of the things I think that's quite unique maybe I don't know the insides of all real estate businesses, but is how then you've set up your head office and HQ when did that come about and how does that work for you guys? I?
Speaker 2:guess. From our perspective, innovation was always one of the it's one of the key values of our business. So we're always looking at ways of improving how we do things and looking for inspiration outside of our industry and the way that businesses work. And I think if you look at our journey for that first 10 years when we were part of a franchise, I think we looked at that you know there were some incredibly high performers and some people didn't perform and that it was probably the 80-20 rule 80% weren't going that great, 20% were the 80% were blaming everyone else for their results and there was no consistency in the way things were working. So in my mind we looked at other businesses. We saw some overseas that were more company-owned and so we decided to start a place as a company-owned structure where we could have more control over the way things were done and the way things operated. So that's how we set up in back in 2001. And we opened our second office in West End and then we went out to Ascot as well for our third.
Speaker 2:But then we started to realise again that in some businesses that company-owned works, particularly in retail. But when you're in the professional services business and you're dealing with people. I think it's that entrepreneurial flair that people need and I think putting managers in the businesses doesn't get the same result as having, maybe, partners in the business who have that real desire to build the business and also, I guess, have things on the line. And so we then went down that franchise path for a period of time and there was some other things that aligned with us. The old brand we were in had been sold and some people weren't satisfied with why things were heading and the people were asking to join our brand, join our brand. And we said no for a while and then we basically said yes, and I guess we tried to pick out the people that we knew. I guess we're good performers and it will take responsibility for their own results.
Speaker 2:But then, as that grew, we had three or four offices our own and we had the franchise ones. And then we found that the experience was different because we did things a certain way. They did things kind of our way. They had the same logo, but the processes and the systems were a bit different. And I think one thing I've learnt in business is a brand is not just a logo. And I think from a franchise perspective, if you just put the logo over the door and maybe offer a bit of training in some systems, that you're not going to get the consistency of service. So a true brand in my mind is when a customer has a certain expectation about what they're going to receive from that company and then expectation is consistent across wherever that brand is. That's easy to do, I guess. If you're looking at manufacturing, if you're a product based up.
Speaker 2:But in that personal custom, in that professional service industry it's difficult because you're dealing with humans. And so we really decided that, okay, if we can control as much as the process as we possibly can, invest heavily in the training to do it our way, that we could build that consistency across the brand and really have focus. And that's why you know, if you look at where a Brisbane agency we've had, at one stage we had an office in Sydney.
Speaker 2:We were up the Sunshine Coast, we're down the Gold Coast, but again that spread, you lose that ability to focus you really control things and I think it's not a matter of saying you know, our way is better than anyone else, but the consistency of our way allows us to say this is the place way and that creates a brand and for us it's. The head office situation means that we control most of the, I guess, non-client facing aspects of it, and then the offices have client facing people in there, whether it's real estate agents or property managers or leasing agents within the business, but everything else to support them in their operations is done through head office.
Speaker 3:So all the contracts or the finance, a lot of the advertising and the marketing, so that's all consistent, run by the HQ.
Speaker 2:Councillor Paywell, all the recruitment done through HQ, all of the training done through HQ, all of the HR processes done there as well. So again, we get that consistency. And the great thing about COVID was terrible time for a lot of people, but that ability for people to work from different locations and deliver the service and the software that was developed with that. So we've been able to develop our own software to really look at each part of the process end to end, and that's where you're sitting. You can see where a particular property is at and who's involved with it. It's a bit of software that was our big, heriotodaceous goal last year called Agent Flow, and that's allowed us to really get improved that consistency and the timeliness of what we do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, great.
Speaker 1:It is great. I love the efficiency behind that. Certainly, my brain leans more towards the efficiency, process, efficiency and anything to do with process for that matter.
Speaker 2:And Sherry could attest to.
Speaker 1:So much so that I think about the way that we structure our home life and our work life, and it is a little bit sort of like that, like if you're really good at something and you'll kind of show more of an interest in it then, you just go hard at that and you execute that, and then it's then inefficient for the other party to kind of dip in and out, because then it just takes up a certain amount of surface area that someone else could be doing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then you're leaving people who are great, and I love what you said about the entrepreneurial spirit. You've got those franchise owners or location office owners, business owners, running that in the way to create their community, to sell and do what they do well, which is to sell and to be in their community.
Speaker 2:To build that customer base.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and again, it's lots of different ways for people to do things and it's our way and we focus more on you know, a bit like a specialist role so if you can imagine from me, get a medical point of view if you had a specialist that had been supported by a whole bunch of people around them, if they're operating theater and they're very good at what they do, but that's what they do and they get in and do that and that's really a thought process behind this. It's a more professional yes, high level, a lot of involvement, as opposed to being that one man band that kind of does everything yeah, because then you don't always, you can't always give your best.
Speaker 3:If you've got to wear all the hats, you can't just focus in on what you're good at, whether that's leading your people or the customer experience. One one thing you said before which I really noticed you guys do incredibly well and is around goals and is around the values. Can you talk us around? Like what you said before? It was a B-hag. You know what role setting goals play in place.
Speaker 2:I guess we, as you know, we've got that mentality of being a learned all culture yes know it all culture. So always looking to improve, always looking to learn more. You know, like I really do believe you know that you stop learning.
Speaker 3:You might as well get out yes, well, I think you know it all, because you just go backwards you know, I think it's really interesting if people are listening to this, you go oh well, anyone could say that. But what I love is that whenever I've run a session in HQ or anything, when Damien's been there, you are literally in the front row with your notepad without fail, and I think you're a humble man, so you're not going to say, oh, you know, I'm sitting there doing this because you don't necessarily love talking about yourself, it's not who you are. But I just think from my perspective to see that, like to see the CEO sitting at the front going what can I learn today? What can I refresh my mind with? What can my team learn? Like it's, it's really true to the learned all culture, and you hear it at every level the team saying, oh, we're not a know it all culture or a learn it all culture for us. That, yeah, puts a heart, a smile on our faces, but yeah, it's great to see.
Speaker 2:And so at the core of that, going back, that learn, all part of it is where disciples from I am, but I get rid of my be now it's a disciple of Jim Collins yes, yes, there's a few. I think there's a few Jim books in the bookcase there's a lot of our guys have been part of beyond our entrepreneurship be and be 2.0 yeah you do with builders are, I think, again from that.
Speaker 2:It's about you know if you're clear on what your vision is as an organization. Vision is made up of three things. That's your purpose. It's why exist.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's what the problem you're trying to solve and for you guys, helping people find the happy place.
Speaker 2:Yeah which is great because you know that's the purpose of the organization. It's a pretty good place to start. So, whether it's your landlord that's looking for financial independence and helping you to invest, or tenants looking for a great place to live, or a vendor that needs to move on and finish for that part of their life and moving to a hopefully a happier place yeah, or a buyer again is looking for that dream home yeah, that's kind of what we do and everything we do to support that then you've got to have, I guess, your values. You call values and that's, you know, as most people know, who studied, they did such. You can't just say, okay, if we're making a decision today, does that align with their values? Then you've actually got to make sure that everybody supports and understands and within the organization, it's about being constantly aware of it, but also saying, okay, we're going to invest heavily in that our actions match whatever you say.
Speaker 2:Yes, some people put three, four things up on the wall. No one can remember what they are and but also do they act them out. So innovations, one of ours, and if you could have a value of innovation, you say okay, well, if it's so important. Who's your head of innovation? Yep, and how much do you invest in that every year? Yeah that's really cool and for us you know we do have an innovation.
Speaker 2:Dave Sparks, when you know yes you know, we invest heavily every year in helping to improve the way we do things, and excellence is one for us. Community is huge, obviously because we're as a real estate agent. You're part of a community and therefore I think it's really behold upon us, if you're successful here, to get involved, give back and help to support the community in every way you possibly can, and what I say respect respect, I'd like you for an R, yeah this fourth one.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes respect is huge for us. It's about, again, believing you're the best, but no better than anybody else. It's not about being overconfident or thinking you're better than anybody else, and that goes to originally. All that comes back to the people you work with yeah, clients and even people here in competition with. So, once you've got those values that you align to your purposes, the third part of vision is actually a mission, and so, while our purpose and our values never change, our mission is the thing that constantly changes. So each year now we have a the place mission force and get together as leaders in May and each office then thinks about okay, what's our mission, and next mission we're going to, and some missions might be 12 months. Then what would be two years might be five years, might be ten years.
Speaker 2:That's where that be had, the big heriodasis goal, comes from yeah so we sit around and say, okay, as an office, what is it that you and your team want to achieve over the next 12 months? Usually, but what we two years, three years get very clear on it and once you've got that clarity around what it is, you know. You then say, okay, what are the strategies we're going to adopt to achieve that? We're four or five different strategies and each strategy has tactics under it. Like here are six or seven different tactics. Yeah, so we get very clear on that. We spend three days doing that. Then they go back to their team and work with the team on that around it and they get involvement.
Speaker 2:Just saying this is where we're going. You'd understand, well work goes into making sure that people are involved in buying what and then by the time they finish it probably mid, mid June they're ready to go one July yeah and then the process of every quarter checking in how we're going within the groups.
Speaker 2:They're probably checking more so every two weeks in the beginning, and then monthly, but then we all get together as a team and say, okay, here's our, here was our B-hag for the year and this is what we've achieved. Here's what we're struggling with.
Speaker 3:Here's what we need to do yeah, and then you have a celebration like the quarterly awards and the different things across the brands yeah of the officers yeah, great, I think having that clarity is so important.
Speaker 1:You should perspective. You know it has to start with the top, doesn't it to then cascade down?
Speaker 2:sure, I get that Again. It's a cliche, but if you go back to talking about what is leading with courage, it's. It's about obviously More about your actions in your words. Yeah, it is, and so that's that's everything. Yeah get up there and speak and spook and buy people up. We can actually do it. So are you turning up in the front row and writing? Down yeah, as opposed to just telling people it's the throwaway line, so that absolutely.
Speaker 3:And then not turning up to the train it's because you're too busy. You know I'm too busy, but you guys should go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly the amount of times I think I've that over the years, for it's, you know, kind of like our people really need to learn how to have tough conversations, you know, and it's like, oh, but, but they need to learn, I know.
Speaker 2:We're okay on our level and I think it.
Speaker 1:It's beautiful to see that it absolutely just sort of flows through from from what sherry said and what what I can hear from Now.
Speaker 2:So sure and again, that you say tough conversations. That's one of the biggest things in business. He's being able to say no. I think Steve Jobs was a huge owner that hit incredible laser light focus.
Speaker 2:You had a lot of failings as a leader probably in yes, steve jobs 1.0, yes, but I think he developed a Steve Jobs 2.0, became a better person, a better leader, but he was apparently, if you look, you hear from the people who work with him he was really good at saying no and notice some really good things and I think that that focus, the ability to focus on things, is really key to people. Um, and that's the confidence and the courage.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm saying no to things, yes, so you can really focus on under, because once you know what your goal is in your mission, you know the strategies you're adopting. If it falls outside of that, you've got to have that courage to say, even though it might be something great, yeah, if it's not a hell, yes. Or it's not a lot of place, what's the line?
Speaker 3:Yeah, the absolute alignment and you know it's the simplicity and I think there's so many leaders that Hear that you know, if we saying the same things it can feel a bit boring for us. I said that before. I've spoken about that to the team Um, but I've heard you speak about this um on the place podcast or the career podcast. And then I also observed it last week because I was at one of the functions Um the support business, business support function, where it's just about reiterating, reiterating, because I remember at the end you you did the conclusion and you talked about the four values and what they all mean and even though the team would see it on the banners and they see it around like just that constant reinforcement.
Speaker 2:How important that is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Um, do you have anything? Because I've got, I've got a question, but you have. You got something.
Speaker 1:No, far away.
Speaker 3:Um, one thing I'm curious about, and we've never actually spoken about this before, and you might just say, oh, you can leave now, yeah, um.
Speaker 3:One and, coming from a husband and wife working together, one thing I've noticed at place is there's lots of family dynamics in the company and it seems to work really well. What are some tips? And you've got? You've got a family, you've got Um, your wife's in the business, your son, I think, is in the business. You've got there's lots of different people, whose brothers and sons, and lots of different dynamics, which I think is is really quite special because it really seems to work. What tips or advice do you have about those dynamics, family people working together? So I don't always see it as a success in other organizations.
Speaker 2:I guess number one, nepotism, is an issue. So if you just give me a job to a family member because they're your family member, it's going to be a real issue.
Speaker 2:Yeah so I guess, hey, you want to make sure that they're the best person for that role and they understand that and they're not treated any differently because they are a family member.
Speaker 2:Um, and it's not something you never get a force on somebody like it again, it's from our perspective. If you look at my thoughts on I mean, there's all different thoughts on leadership and different styles of leadership and no one's right or wrong, but for me, the key is that, um, you know, with your flight center background, yeah, I'm a very big believer that family village tribe, yes, where you, where you work with a group of seven or eight people and then once get beyond that, you need to keep breaking it down. And so, from my perspective, it's you know, my leadership team, who I work with seven or eight people, you know, I genuinely hear more about them and their life and success, then the impact they have on the business. So, once you have that relationship is you know it's good, it's bad? I love you to be here as well, as long as you're being successful, finding a happy place and if for some reason they're working, then it's fine if we leave.
Speaker 2:You know if you need to leave and move on to the next place as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah once you break that, they know the genuine feeling and concern for people. Most relationships are pretty easy and it passes through, whether you're a family member or whether you're not. It's about you know. It's our role as a leader. Say how can we help fulfill what you want to achieve, how can we get to you to where you want to be? And if there's alignment there ever at, everyone wins yes, and so, as I said, a little like guys who might be high performers Maybe you want to go and open a business I said If you're trying to just do that to make more money as your primary goal, it could be a real struggle for you. If you generally care about people and when invest time and effort into them to be successful, the by-product is you'll do well.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes but that can't be the major goal. Yeah and if you haven't got time to do that, then just keep doing what you do. Keep becoming that producer.
Speaker 3:Yes as opposed to wanting to be, I guess, a leader yeah, and I I believe that so strongly and so passionately that sometimes, whether that's in travel, whether it's in real estate I've we used to see it in flight center all the time where you'd have a great sales person they go I want to open the store. You know, run the store now Because I'll earn more money, or the significance of the prestige of it all, and it sounds great and it looks great, but if you don't genuinely have a love and a care for the humans that are around you, it's going to be a hard slog and I think she's talking about me and I I wrestle with this a little bit.
Speaker 1:I can identify with this when?
Speaker 2:I wrestle with this a little bit where the natural kind of yeah, I guess how you climb the ladder.
Speaker 1:You know you go from selling a product to then running a team.
Speaker 1:You know, and then that can be kind of, you know, an element of wealth creation, if you like, and then you open another store and then you, then you do that and and it's certainly one thing that I probably struggled to, really struggled to grasp actually back then in particular, was that is the the you know, the people plus customer equals profit. Where it was for me a little bit, I don't know, I just saw it much more analytically and transactionally. And then you know, and some shout out, if anyone who used to work for me who can listen to this podcast, no doubt they can attest to this.
Speaker 3:Now we'll put up a voting forum maybe for people to weigh in on, but I wouldn't do that yeah but but yeah, like you know, unintentionally, I was just doing the best I could.
Speaker 1:but you know, burnt I probably a few bridges there, because really it was about the, the doubles in the sense of it driving to this outcome, as opposed to the genuine care and the appreciate with you at the time, saying what is your intention like and it's not being funny, but like it's.
Speaker 3:It's hard work, leading people.
Speaker 2:Struggle. If you look at you know I think it was book is seven stages of business growth. That that early struggle is most businesses goes for it. That's why a lot of businesses failed that first couple of years. Yeah it's whether you win or lose. It can be just a marginal thing whether you succeed or not, and so it's hard not to have that financial focus.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Um, but you know, I think when people get more established, it's easier to step back and focus more on the people.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Although I'd say if you do it from the start, you're going to get there a lot quicker.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2:But it's that weighing up between the financial viability and, I guess, success or even survival of a business.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Do you? What are your thoughts on leaders being born or leaders being made?
Speaker 2:From my personal point of view, I'd say it's being made. I mean, you're born with certain skills that might be communication skills that are important. Some people are very inspirational on what they do. They get up in front of a lot of charisma and so forth.
Speaker 1:This one here For me? Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's not my strong point. I mean, I'm probably more again in just investing the people, but I think you're going to journey. If you're in a different industry, I think it's important. You need to be an expert at that first, so you have to be successful at it and then you can start to develop the other skills. As you said before, just because you're a great salesperson doesn't mean you're a great leader, but I think having a knowledge if you're an industry, having knowledge of the industry is obviously pretty key, but then the people part of it and the management skills are things that you learn being on your own. I guess individual personality and your strengths and personality testing is something we've been doing, yeah, in our business for 21 years. Everybody comes on board. We used to perform in psychology Dr Phil Jornsie, that's right, yeah, it's been him for years and years.
Speaker 2:I'm understanding different personality types and how they react with each other. It's important to us and we train our guys on that so they know that if you're a Mozzie enforcer dealing with a thinker, feeler, that's how they react and why. So that interpersonal reactions is so important as you grow a business and understanding the psychology behind it all. But definitely I believe it's a trial and error.
Speaker 2:I think some people might be on leads my personal experience more about learning it. But again it comes back to having the genuine care for the people. I think if I look at my team now the one-on-ones I do with them it's pretty hard for me to try and comment on their work because they're so much better at their individual things than I am.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:But I generally do care about them as well and their personal. I might spend a bit of time talking about what's going on with them and their family and so forth, because I find it interesting, exciting and having that connection, I think, is very important to help people, because if people are performing well, there's usually reasons for it. If people are distracted, there's usually other reasons for that as well. It's not that they don't have the ability to do it I don't know how to do it it's just other things happening in their life that maybe, if we can help in some way, I think that helps to work them through whatever they're going through and also helps the business to grow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. What does success look like for you? How would you define success for you?
Speaker 2:I think that's a very personal thing and I think that comes back to happiness what's going to make you happy, and that's for me. It's always a period of time where myself and Sarah will sit down and say, okay, what are our goals, but also what's happiness look like.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And there's so many different parts. So Mike Gordon, who you know in our business, is our dream manager.
Speaker 3:Yes, I love that title.
Speaker 2:And he looks at the 12 different parts of people's lives, whether it be spirituality, longevity, health, financial stability, relationships and the rest of it, and people really understanding that okay, of the 12, his five want to focus on where do I sit in those at the moment and what's going to move the bar?
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And I guess there's lots of different tools that people can use to do that and from that they can say, okay, that's what happiness looks like for me. I want people to try success to financial success and that's just, I guess, the business economy that we're in, I guess people drive that, whether it's numbers or records or worth of the business or income, which I think is important if you want to do things.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:I think everyone's got very clear on what success looks like for them, because obviously some people can be rich, appear to be successful, but unhappy in their lives. Yes, for me it's first comes around family and experiences and also, again going back to that original discussion we had, it's about seeing people their lives grow and them being the people who work with us, their journey, they go on, and how their lives changed and how it can impact that.
Speaker 2:For me, it's a source of happiness and reward. I guess what is what rewards you? Want to feel happy rather than adding. What's the goal at the? End of the day, because it's life is, we say it's such a journey.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is, and I really Andy and I have only we've been talking about this a lot recently as well just how important it is to go. What makes you happy? Because I think the financial goals. They're important. Yeah, people could have all this wealth or whatever number they get to and then they turn around. They're still not feeling that fulfillment and enjoyment.
Speaker 2:It's like the old Gordon Gekko line in Wall Street. One remember that one. What?
Speaker 3:one One of that no.
Speaker 2:Bob Cox was saying to Gordon like how many boats can you ski behind Gordon?
Speaker 3:When's enough enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, because typically people are driven by that when they get to there, someone's always got a bigger boat, so it's the next one. And then what? And then what?
Speaker 3:And then it's this life of unfulfillment? Yeah, and I've heard you speak about travel. That's something you say now about experiences yeah, travel, you love a bit of travel, definitely. Yeah, traveling experiences.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Where's Next on your holiday list?
Speaker 2:Where's Next on my list? I think we're going up to Hamilton Island in the next month.
Speaker 3:Yeah, beautiful with the family.
Speaker 2:No, that's Sarah and I.
Speaker 3:And I think again.
Speaker 2:For us it's you know this if you plan out a year, this time we spend together, this time we spend with the family, not be time to go with my mates.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Type of thing. So we can make sure when we're sitting at the beginning of each year they're the first thing to look at, non-negotiable, the go in the say okay, I need to spend time with my family, so it's Sarah and the kids, or it's the extended family, my parents still around, you know, so transverse much time as I came with them and my brothers and sisters, all our life's tough because you can only say many hours in the week and then you know again also, it's important you know a trip. I go with my somewhere every year.
Speaker 3:Is it a sporting one? Or where do you? Is there somewhere you go?
Speaker 2:It's a place we used to go to up north a lot. There's a lot of fishing and spear fishing and things like that. Recently we've been spending a bit of time over in in Queenstown yeah great, doing activities over there. How good, how good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're speaking about the same thing, about sometimes the solo, like have doing something solo and then with your friends as a partnership and then with family. Just that you need all those different dimensions. Yeah yeah, that's great, that's great.
Speaker 1:I have a question for you just around real estate in particular. Sure, Over the last 20 years, have you seen that industry change? Do you feel like and I guess more specifically, do you feel like what makes a good agent 20 years ago makes a good agent today?
Speaker 2:I think yes, but the way it's been delivered has changed. So definitely a good agent is someone who develops relationships with people and generally cares about them. They know their market very well. Most people want to know what's happening in the market, what's happening with my investment advice on how could I improve that investment? So people have great product knowledge or market knowledge. It's around either a suburb or a type of property or departments or houses, or it might be riverfront and so forth, and then it's that constant communication and contact and being there to help people so that when they decide it might be time to move or to rent it out and so forth. That's my trusted advisor. I'll go straight to whoever it is. So that's a great agent. Does that? Obviously, all the other skills good marketers, great negotiators, their skills that people can develop and, like anybody, you get better and better over time with the more experience that you have.
Speaker 2:I guess the biggest change is probably the emergence of the agent as their own brand, and that's probably comes through social media, whereas previously it was the brand of the office, was the main brand people come through and then the different people who work there, but social media has allowed people to actually develop their own brand in a very effective way in little communities. If you look at the way we've evolved as a business, it's a real partnership. So, if you look even the way the market, it's Place Plus and we help each agent to develop their own brand that sits alongside us. So, if you look at, is our experience, our understanding, our know-how and by being aligned with our brand, it gives them, I guess, a foothold in the marketplace and hopefully gives them a reputation. Yes, but then allows them to have their own different spin on it. This person might be a specialist in this area or the stock product and it's different to the other agent that sits next to them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's so true because I follow so many agents and their pages on social media and just the pockets they're in, the style of houses they're in, and just their personal brand, how it comes out. It's so fascinating to observe because, even from the outside, not knowing all of them, and then getting to know some, you're like, oh yeah, that person, that person, if it was buying, if they were out, these are the people I'd call, and sometimes it's just on the surface, from what people see, but it's a powerful message?
Speaker 2:Exactly, I think, everybody. If you look at some of the message that they've portrayed, they're obviously appealing to different people.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Some of it's. You look at it and you get a lot of social media.
Speaker 3:No, have you heard of social media?
Speaker 2:I have heard of it. I think it's amazing.
Speaker 3:It's very effective, but it's just you don't go on it at all. Do you have not really got a?
Speaker 2:presence in there Never had a no. But even from my perspective, I guess, sitting where I am, it's about the business, it's not about me. If I was an agent now selling the, I'd absolutely have to be all over that.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:So people could be in contact with my brand.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:This place is the brand. It's not about me, so I don't have to do that, and we have a few more hours, a lot more hours in your name.
Speaker 3:You get distracted by other things. You get distracted by something. Yes, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 2:But it's it's been a great great tool for people to develop the brand and people understand who they are and what they stand for and what they do.
Speaker 3:Yes, so much though. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Damien, what do you think the fundamentals of a great leader are?
Speaker 2:Again, some of the different leadership styles. There's some of the different. It's a bit like religions. There's so many different ways to salvation. Which is right, which is wrong. I guess you'll find out eventually. All you've done, who knows?
Speaker 1:Who knows? Yeah, we won't yeah.
Speaker 2:But for me, as I think it goes back before, it's that genuine clarity of vision, the ability to communicate that, and then the general, you know true, caring for the people who you work with. You know, and again, that's where our purpose comes in Great, helping people find their happy place. It starts with the people that we work with.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Once you get understanding what they want to do, where they want to go to, if you can help them to achieve that, um successful yeah.
Speaker 3:Beautiful.
Speaker 1:Beautiful.
Speaker 3:You mentioned earlier about sitting down at the beginning of the year, the non-negotiables and that's a question we often ask guests on in the conversation. What are some non-negotiables you have for your life and, I guess, your happiness, your wellbeing, if you've got some daily practices, some things that you know. Just get the best out of you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, again, that's goes back to that, I guess discussion before about the ability to say no.
Speaker 2:Yeah so you're going to go, what's important. So I said every year you'll say, okay, here is some time off, I need to have it's trips or it's learning. Again, I probably do a couple of weeks of learning and part of an organization that's very involved in education, and so we'll have different people and topics by maybe two or three a month and I spend another week a year for the past few years at a university over in the states Again, just opening up the lines and new things, new experiences in other industries. So that's that's an important part of it. And then I think, from a wellness perspective, you know, I think goes back to my days of rowing at school. I've always been an early riser, so you get up and try and do something every day and as you do get older, that becomes a bit more challenging because the things that used to be able to keep you in shape, that work is really good.
Speaker 1:Punching at a thousand chinups before the day starts.
Speaker 2:We've got to work harder at it and that's again, that's something and Gium going through at the moment with a with a lot of things that looks at longevity and things you can do to make sure that you can be active and healthy and highly mobile in your 70s and 80s and so forth. You don't someone doesn't stop you before then.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, stopping you in new tracks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's important to me and obviously, again, having having the family time with things that you can set up in advance.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And then again being clear on, you know to my week can look fairly populated At the beginning, a week or so out, so that there's not a lot of gaps, because, you know, put those big, important things in first.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:And then whatever else pops up. It's probably got a slot in there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you've got that real discipline around what's important and then build in from there Beautiful. Are there any insights or anything exciting on the horizon for place, with goals for the future?
Speaker 2:I mean, as always, there's the, I guess, innovation in the way that we do things. Yes, that's important to us and we're always looking every year. You know HQ team has a, has a BHAG and last year was a name popcorn chicken that became agent. We've got Hubba Bubba is our, is our, is our big album.
Speaker 1:They can be back to the 90s.
Speaker 2:I love that we're running through and that again it's to make the journey for our agents and property managers easier and make them more, I guess, make their life better, make the better what they do. It takes them friction away and then it's again just growing out the brand. You know we've got a place 2032 plan across across Brisbane for the number of business that we're having different places. But again it's that with a professional services business it's not like retail, just kind of open shops everywhere. It's all about the people and I think that culture, if you grow too fast it's how hard to maintain your culture. I think it was part of the journey that we had when we started to franchise, where we did a certain way in the offices that we do and involved with in a different way. It wasn't bad but it was different.
Speaker 2:So the culture, the culture kind of kind of diluted across that, and so for us we're more of a of a law firm, accounting firm type of type of model. We have a lot of partners and people who are aligned that way.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's kind of how we, how we grow out, rather than the old typical franchise. And you see, f word, all that shared services, shared services models, yeah, so that's exciting for us. It's just growing at the right people, the right pace out across Brisbane. For us, you know, with everything that's happening, particularly around the Olympics, we see this, you know, going back to to a couple of years ago, we called the golden decade from Brisbane property. I think that with the spending rate, infrastructure and different things that'll happen over the next eight years, nine years, eight years yeah, nine, yeah, eight years yeah.
Speaker 2:Brisbane will be a very different place in 2032 to what it is now. And I think even now you see that a lot of Southern who's who you should forget about Brisbane. It's like why would you go back in time? Have you even noticed in a, in a fin review article and so forth, that people are really starting to really starting to to be impressed by Brisbane, the way it's grown as a city. You know Sydney could possibly be too big. Yeah, I think most cities have got a will be a sweet spot where they it's a great size and I think Brisbane's coming into that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:There's enough options for people, but it's just not too big there.
Speaker 3:It's too disconnected, so yes, that's true, we're excited about that period of time. Yeah, that's great. I grew up in Sydney.
Speaker 2:So I appreciate.
Speaker 3:When I first moved to Queensland, maybe 20 years ago, like oh, this small country town, but you know, and now I just couldn't live anywhere else in Australia. I love.
Speaker 2:Brisbane, I think it's. I think the next, this is the next period of time. Next eight years, nine years or so we'll be. We'll just see it get better and better. So that's, that's the impressive, exciting time we're focused on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, fantastic, fantastic, andy. What's some? What's our favorite?
Speaker 1:last question yeah, yeah, I reckon you know what it is. You just got a baiting me to ask it. Yeah Well, last question for today. Damien, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 3:Thank you, it's been so good.
Speaker 1:Is what is the kindest thing that someone's done for you?
Speaker 2:Kindest thing If it's from a business perspective.
Speaker 3:Yeah, any.
Speaker 2:I guess from a business perspective, if I look back over the years, I've always looked within the industry and outside of the industry for people who you admire. They're doing things well for success, Because I think along the journey, no shortage of people who give you advice.
Speaker 3:Whether you ask for it or not or not.
Speaker 2:And I think you've always got to understand, okay, be very careful who you take advice from that perspective and I guess for me there's a number of times I've traveled overseas to meet organizations who I respected from the outside, people who didn't know me. I give them a call and say, hey, we're coming over to see you and rock up on the front steps and the time that people would give us. So I think you find that successful people, good people, generally want to share their knowledge and their path and so forth. So from a generosity point of view, there's that perspective. So can I answer the question a?
Speaker 1:bit. Yeah, absolutely it does, there's heaps of other personal stuff.
Speaker 2:I can talk about Some of his things. You know have a beautiful wife and Sarah, who's an amazing human being.
Speaker 3:Yes, I heard on the property career podcast, the place one. There they asked the quickfire questions. One of them was who is your hero? And you said Sarah, which is beautiful.
Speaker 2:She's an incredible human being. She's a mother and a business partner and, as an agent. What she does, you know.
Speaker 3:I think she is Australia's number one female agent. She'd be up there.
Speaker 2:She was recognized as Australia's most influential woman. She at the REA Awards in Sydney. So incredible, yeah. So putting all that together is a big task.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:A lot of pressure, so yeah, yeah good team work Respect.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's amazing, amazing. Well, just as you said, about busy people running big businesses giving you their time, thank you for giving us your time, because I know you've always got a full calendar and we really appreciate that. You've gifted us your generosity of your story and just being here and being part of it.
Speaker 2:So thank you, I hope there's some value in there, fantastic you know what there absolutely is.
Speaker 1:Yes, thanks, damian.
