Dr Dinesh Palipana | Perspective, Purpose and Empathy | Lead with Courage

In this inspiring episode, hosts Cherie and Andy Canning welcome Dr. Dinesh Palipana, a trailblazing leader and changemaker, to the Lead with Courage podcast. As the second person with quadriplegia to graduate as a doctor in Australia and an advocate for inclusivity, Dinesh shares his unique perspective on life, leadership, and the importance of courage.

This conversation delves into Dinesh’s remarkable journey, from a life-changing car accident to becoming a doctor, lawyer, and author. Through personal anecdotes and thought-provoking reflections, Dinesh explores how perspective and empathy shape effective leadership and how purpose can bring meaning to our lives. Whether it’s his experiences in Sri Lanka, the values he lives by, or the impact of gratitude, Dinesh’s insights offer powerful lessons for leaders at all stages.

What You'll Learn in This Episode:

• What “leading with courage” means and why courage is integral to leadership.
• How Dinesh’s accident transformed his life and taught him to view challenges as opportunities for growth.
• The role of empathy and perspective in creating impactful leadership.
• Why purpose and values are essential in navigating life’s complexities.
• Practical advice on embracing gratitude and staying present in the moment.

Notable Quotes:

• “Courage is part of what makes up leadership—you can’t separate the two.”
• “The world is a reflection of ourselves. Perspective and gratitude can transform even the hardest days.”
• “Empathy isn’t just understanding those who are similar to us; it’s about bridging divides and creating unity.”

Resources Mentioned:

• Dinesh Palipana’s book: Stronger
• The Daily Stoic by Ryan Holiday
• The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho

Connect with Dr. Dinesh Palipana:

• Instagram: @dinesh.palipana

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Thanks for joining us on the Lead with Courage podcast, bought to you by Luminate Leadership. We trust this episode has given you some insights and joy to empower you live your biggest, best life.

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Until the next episode, we hope you live and Lead with Courage!
Cherie and Andy x
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Luminate Leadership is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14.

Transcript

Hi, I'm Chloe Canning. Welcome back for season two on Lead with Courage. Luminate leadership acknowledges the traditional custodians of the land, which we would call this podcast, the the great and terrible people. We pay respect to the elders past, present and emerging. 

Cherie Canning: Welcome to Lead with Courage, the podcast that celebrates the bold and inspiring stories of leaders making a difference.

Cherie Canning: We're your hosts, Andy and Cherie Canning, and together, we'll dive into the minds of the trailblazers, the risk takers, and those who embrace life with a growth mindset. 

Andy Canning: On today's episode of We Recourage, we welcome Dinesh Palipana to the podcast. Dinesh is the second person with quadriplegia to graduate as a doctor in Australia.

Andy Canning: And he's only the first with a spinal cord injury. A couple of months ago, I picked up Dinesh's book and thought, man, I'd love to speak to this guy. He would have such a beautiful view on life that I could learn from. And lucky enough, he responded to a message and we, we have him on the Leeward Courage podcast today.

Andy Canning: So really excited to share his story. Part of his story, uh, most of which can absolutely be found in his book, but some of which he's shares today and more just his perspective on life and sharing his gift with others. So hope you enjoy it. Welcome Dinesh. 

Cherie Canning: Dinesh, thank you for joining us on the Lead with Courage podcast.

Cherie Canning: This is a conversation we have, um, really been looking forward to. So a huge welcome. 

Dinesh Palipana: Yeah, thanks for having me. I'll be looking forward to it too. 

Cherie Canning: Thank you. Thank you. The first question we love to ask anyone and I'm particularly excited for your answer. No pressure. Uh, but then one of the first questions we always ask our guests is what does lead with courage mean to you?

Dinesh Palipana: I think, um, I feel like you can't have leadership without courage. So, uh, I just think, I don't know if it, uh, to me, I don't know if I can say lead with courage because I feel like, um, uh, courage is a part of what makes up leadership. I think, um, I think the two are, uh, quintessentially linked. So leaders have to be courageous if they're going to be effective.

Cherie Canning: Yeah. Yes, I fully agree. I fully agree. And I think when we, you know, we've both read your book, Stronger, and Follow Your Story, and I mean, for those who might not know you, um, right now, as far as titles go, you're a doctor, you're a lawyer, you're an author, a speaker, there's a lot under your belt, um, as far as what you've achieved.

Cherie Canning: And I think when we look at 2010, that was a huge. Changing moment, June, if I've got this right, um, in 2010, you were two years into a medical degree? 

Dinesh Palipana: Yeah, 2010 was, uh, I was two years into a medical degree, uh, when, when I had a car accident. I was, uh, 24 years old at the time, um, so, uh, Just looking at the background behind you today and the rain.

Yes. 

Dinesh Palipana: It was actually a day that was very similar to this, uh, where it was raining off and on. And, um, I was driving back from visiting my mum in the north side of Brisbane and my car, uh, aquaplaned and I had a rollover. And that was the day that. Change to change my life. 

Cherie Canning: Can I ask how, how does it feel when you retell that because you must have retold that so many times, not just in your book, but every time you're speaking or being interviewed, I'm sure pieces of this come up, like, how does that feel to recount?

Dinesh Palipana: Uh, I actually don't have any feelings towards it. Uh, I definitely don't have any negative feelings towards it. I just, it's just something that happened. And, uh, if it didn't happen, we wouldn't be having this conversation today. So it's just a, there are things that we can't change about life. And that's one of them.

Dinesh Palipana: But the only thing we can change about it is how we view it. I love this saying that there is nothing beautiful without struggle. So one way I can view that is that through that struggle, many beautiful things have happened and, um, and, and, and I, I, I just choose to view it differently. So, yeah, I mean, of course if we wind back time and if we're in the weeks to months after the accident happened, I would've done anything to turn back the clock.

Dinesh Palipana: And not have perhaps, but today I know it's something that happened today. I know it's something I can't change. And so I choose to just, um, I choose to see it. I just choose to see it positively because that's what I can control. 

Cherie Canning: Yeah, that's, that's incredible. Would you describe, were you always that way in the optimism and focusing on what you can control?

Cherie Canning: Is this just part of who Dinesh has been since you were a young, young boy born? I was reading Candy in Sri Lanka, right? We've been to Candy. Um, you know, has that always been who you are? 

Dinesh Palipana: Um, I, I, I hope not. I hope, I hope that I am not today the person that I was 20 years ago. And I hope in 20 years, I wouldn't be the person that I am today.

Dinesh Palipana: But I think our, um, experiences shape who we are. And, um, growing up in a country like Sri Lanka, where there's a lot of hardship for people. Um, we. lived through a war and I grew up through the civil war between the Sinhalese and Tamil people in Sri Lanka. So, uh, I think growing up in an environment like that, where people are poor, where people go through all sorts of struggle, I feel like, um, one learns to, uh, view the world a bit differently.

Dinesh Palipana: So for me, perspective has been really important. I mean, we're so damn lucky. To live in a country like Australia, right? Like it's, it's just an incredible place to live. And we have everything. I mean, I just drank, uh, I felt like drinking a soup. So, um, we went to the Japanese restaurant nearby and they, they sold me a miso soup and I could, uh, not only choose what I felt like on this rainy day.

Dinesh Palipana: But I could afford to buy that thing and I think that's that's like we're gonna take stock of those little little things, right? Because how many people can't do that? How many people can't afford a soup? How many people can't choose to drink a soup on this day, but we're we're Um, in amongst 26 million people, or however the population of this country might be, where we can go in peace and, uh, for most part can drink a soup if we wanted to.

Cherie Canning: So true. And I don't think it's unless people have experienced either. Living somewhere where that is not always your reality or possibly traveling somewhere or those who don't get to travel, or maybe it's reading or listening or learning about other places to where we really get that perspective. Um, yeah, just so critical.

Cherie Canning: So critical. 

Dinesh Palipana: Yeah. And you asked me what leading with courage meant, and I think courage is a, courage is a big part of it, but I also think perspective is a big part of leadership. And for me, that has been really important because this perspective of having come from a different country and a different, uh, vastly different environment, um, I am reminded that we, because again, like if we're talking about Australia specifically, but there are many, many places like that, um, in the world, but what is it that makes our life what it is today?

Dinesh Palipana: And I think a part of it is actually the, the philosophies that we have built this society. Bye. We believe in things like fairness and justice, uh, equity. We believe in things like, you know, we, we invest in the entrepreneurial spirit. We, we, uh, provide education and employment. We make sure that the marginalized, we, we fight for those people.

Dinesh Palipana: So I think I, I I've got that perspective that actually not everywhere in the world is like that. The rich poor gap is so big in Sri Lanka. I went there, I went there a few years ago and I, I love cars. So I, um, I got to go for a drive with this guy who had, who had a Lamborghini there. And this Lamborghini was hugely expensive in that country.

Dinesh Palipana: Like we're talking over a million bucks. 

Wow. 

Dinesh Palipana: Um, and. I'm in this car and I, I'm in this apartment building, which is again in the millions of dollars. Um, so there are security guards and everything guarding this building. And I jump into the car with, um, this guy and I go for a drive. So we pull out of the apartment building.

Dinesh Palipana: And we drive down the street and nearly immediately there are people lining the road, uh, who are begging for food. There are people dragging themselves on the ground who have no legs and, um, there's just hundreds. of people living in abject poverty who don't know where their next meal is coming from. So I'm driving through this space and I'm thinking, man, I'm in this car that could probably feed all these people for maybe a year if we use that money properly.

Dinesh Palipana: Right. And, um, And, and, and I think that perspective is important to have for a leader. Um, so the, the perspective that actually what are we fighting for? What, what is the risk? Um, if we don't fight for something, what, what does, what does the world look like for someone when we're not here? So I think, um, courage is one component, but I also think perspective is really important for leadership as well.

Cherie Canning: Um, I'm curious then in that car, what were the emotions like sitting there seeing what you saw and knowing you're sitting in that car, what, what emotions did you feel? 

Dinesh Palipana: Like I said, I love cars, right? So, um, and, and this was a very special vehicle that was just built for this person, right? So the, the actual experience, the automotive experience, um, for the enthusiast was incredible.

Dinesh Palipana: Like I was having a blast, but as a human being, um, I think it was very conflicting because we have to choose to turn a blind eye to certain things. Don't we? Like we see bad things happening sometimes, um, whether it be in front of us or around the world. And we choose. To do nothing about it or we choose to do something about it.

Dinesh Palipana: And so I'm like, how do we, how do I, yeah. This is, it's, it's, it's very conflicting and it's very difficult to be in that situation. And so I was like, I, I find it really hard to reconcile this. 

Cherie Canning: Fair. Fair. Yeah. 

Andy Canning: Totally fair. And I wonder, um, I don't know about you and it, it sounds like it might be the case.

Andy Canning: Man, it is, it is tricky. It is tricky to hold like two opposing thoughts in your mind and in your body at the same time. And, and I wonder like through your kind of, I guess, medical career and your profession and that sort of thing, I'd imagine that's not an. uncommon feeling that you have to, that you have to look at from a clinical perspective, and then also just from a human perspective.

Andy Canning: And, and how do you, I guess, how do you kind of go about, is that something that comes naturally to you, or how do you go about doing that? 

Dinesh Palipana: I think, um, for me, Values have been really important. So, um, I met a politician once and she told me that when she first took office, she got this piece of advice from someone.

Dinesh Palipana: And, uh, they said, when you make hard decisions, you got to think about what your values are. And she thought, you know what? I've never written down what my values are. So she wrote them down and she stuck it to the wall in her office. And she said, this is me. And these are the things. That I believe in. So it's been a, it's been a compass or some call it the North star of where to go.

Dinesh Palipana: So for me to, after the accident and after I had the spinal cord injury, I spent a lot of time laying in bed and recovering and just thinking about life. Right. Um, and, sidestep, there's this beautiful book called stillness is the key, which was written by Ryan Holiday. Right. And it's a series of books that he wrote.

Dinesh Palipana: One is called Courage, uh, one is on courage. Courage is calling. One is discipline is destiny. One is ego is the enemy. Um, and there's a couple of others. Um, anyway, this book on, this book on stillness is amazing because it tells you how sometimes we need to be still to really discover ourselves. So this, this spinal cord injury is Forced me to be still for a period of time and I was in bed and I was thinking about okay thinking a lot about life and I'm like, you know, who do I want to be now like because Everything is destroyed and I have to try and rebuild myself and who do I want to be?

Dinesh Palipana: So I actually did the same exercise I'm like probably need to I want to write down what I'm about and what the values are. So when time comes where You beautifully said, Andy, when there are, when there are those uncomfortable situations where there are two conflicting emotions or two conflicting things in the mind, I think we just need to be value driven.

Dinesh Palipana: And there are, you're absolutely right. There are times in, in, uh, healthcare and at work where, um, where I face these situations, but the decision, the decision is easy. I don't think decisions are ever hard. We always know in our heart what the right decision is. But doing it is hard. 

Um, 

Dinesh Palipana: and, uh, and I think that's the thing.

Dinesh Palipana: So I've always used the values as a compass and there have been times where, um, the decision was easy, but it's just been hard to do it. 

Cherie Canning: Can I ask about your values? Are they ones that you publicly share and, and what are they if so? And if not, they're just close to you and your compass internally. 

Dinesh Palipana: So, um, Leading on from, um, what, uh, leading on from Ryan Holiday and his books, um, it's on, there's a lot of, uh, philosophies based on stoicism.

Cherie Canning: Yes. I think I have followed, I might've exchanged some messages with you over this because, um, the daily stoic posts and the different quotes that you've reshared and yeah, we're big fans. It's powerful stuff. 

Dinesh Palipana: But one of the, yeah, one of the things they encourage you to do is not to talk about what it is to be a good person, but rather to be one.

Cherie Canning: Yes, yes. 

Dinesh Palipana: Not to talk about your philosophies, but rather to embody them. 

Cherie Canning: Yes. 

Dinesh Palipana: I guess if there are, there are things that I value, I think for myself, um, it's, it's, and it's always an attempt. I think it's a never ending journey, but I feel like things like integrity, honesty, um, I feel like things like service.

Dinesh Palipana: Um, you know, those are the kind of values, discipline and, uh, just, just, just an attempt to be a good person in this world. And we fall, right? We, we fall all the time. Like there is always something better we can do, but, um, I think those are the things that I try to aim for. 

Cherie Canning: Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. I 

Andy Canning: know we talked about values, but if we talk about purpose, um, how does that show up for you?

Andy Canning: With purpose and values being extricably linked, is it something that you're able to define as well, and does it govern any decision making that you have? 

Dinesh Palipana: I feel like purpose probably, um, flowers out of our values if we identify what those things are. Um, so for me, like purpose has been, um, humanity and, and what I can do for a human being, um, which is why I became a doctor.

Dinesh Palipana: And I, I, I, I, I feel like the, I don't feel like I work a day in my life. So I just feel like I get to do something that's meaningful to me. And purpose is really important, right? Because I think, um, for a part of my life, I just existed and, um, I existed and I was looking for things that, I guess I was looking for things that filled a hole, you know, I looked for pleasure.

Dinesh Palipana: Um, whether it be in, I looked for pleasure in all sorts of things. And, uh, whether it was partying or, or going out or, I don't know, whatever. Material things. Um, so, I was just existing and I was filling that hole with different distractions, like Pleasure. But when I found purpose, that's when I really started to feel alive and, and life started to feel meaningful.

Dinesh Palipana: But for all of us, I feel like purpose is so important. Right? And if you look at the people that have really left this world for the better, that have made an impact on our lives and, and have changed the course of humanity, I feel like those have been human beings that have felt some sense of purpose.

Dinesh Palipana: Hmm. Um. So I think purpose is, is really important because otherwise we're just existing. 

Cherie Canning: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. It may be clearer or easier to say that people who have had big moments in life where you've had to do some big soul searching, um, it's easier to define purpose than, than not. Do you agree?

Cherie Canning: Or, or, I mean, it could go either way, right? It could go to the point where people then have, um, hopelessness and not be able to find purpose. End. Big events are such a, you know, that's a vast array. Everyone's got a different perspective of what that is in their lives. But I, I know when I speak with Andy, like he'll often say like, how do I find that purpose?

Cherie Canning: How do I find that purpose? And, um, he'll then say back to me, like, you know, it's really clear that I've found mine, um, and really aligned in life with that, but not everyone, stumbles on it or discovers it as quickly or as clearly. I don't know your thoughts on that. I'd love your perspective. 

Dinesh Palipana: No, I didn't.

Dinesh Palipana: And that's okay. Like I think that's okay, but for the world to truly benefit from us and for us to Shine our light into the world. Finding that purpose is important. So, um, there's another book called the alchemist, which 

Cherie Canning: is that right? 

Dinesh Palipana: Yeah. Yeah. I think many people would have read it, but, um, I think for me and there, there are many messages in the book, but I think for me, it's about a journey.

Dinesh Palipana: Like it's about a. person taking a journey looking for the treasure. And I think the treasure for me is purpose. But he takes this massive long journey, discovers a lot of things along the way and, um, and ends up finding his purpose. So it's, it's a journey and I don't think it matters if we go into, um, uh, uh, later in life.

Dinesh Palipana: And I always talk about Colonel Sanders. He was 65 something when he founded 

KFC. 

Dinesh Palipana: One of the most beautiful moments of my life was having a cup of tea with Uh, Meryl Fernando is a founder of Dilma. So I had a cup of tea with the Dilma guy and I see Dilma everywhere, right? It's in the supermarkets, it's all over the world and everyone enjoys this tea, but he, he didn't start that company until he was in his fifties either.

Dinesh Palipana: And he told me this story, but one of the beautiful things about him is that he also does so much for the community 

and 

Dinesh Palipana: he doesn't really talk about that much. He's passed away now. So, but, um, But I think it doesn't really matter. I mean, you see people running for presidents, presidencies in the 60s and 70s and like, so it's the journey and it's, it's, and that's courage.

Dinesh Palipana: I think it's about having the courage to take the journey. Yeah. To take the twists and turns, to try the new things, to seize the opportunities, to, to perhaps step outside this stream of life. Because again, we're like leaves, right, floating in a, in a little stream, and we just go in the direction of the stream.

Dinesh Palipana: And that's society, society has, and I'm not being critical of it, because We have a pretty good functioning society, but there is also an expectation of us to do certain things. And that, and so we're like a leaf floating along, but I think sometimes we need to just jump out of that stream and try to try to, uh, and by doing that, not only do we decide our own future, but we have the opportunity to change the direction of the stream as well for the better.

Cherie Canning: Yeah. Yeah. I love that visual. Absolutely love it. I was talking with someone today, um, we're having a bit of a very deep conversation and we're just talking about how often people and we all, um, can just go through life so Asleep and just not awake. And she, she's kind of had a bit of a aha moment recently.

Cherie Canning: And she's like, wow, I'm just noticing this and I'm noticing that, and I couldn't believe these things. And it's like, yes, you've woken, you know, and it, it sounds a little cliche or even a little woo woo. But, um, I think just to notice, just to notice what's around and maybe that's where the stream, like, do we notice that we're just, the leaf on the stream actually just.

Cherie Canning: Being taken rather than in our own flow, but we're just getting taken, um, and instead go right. Is this the flow that I wish for, for my life? Is this where I want it to go? And yeah, just to be awake and conscious. 

Dinesh Palipana: Which, uh, which I think is what the movie Matrix tried to allude to in a way, but at the same time, I feel like, um.

Dinesh Palipana: Um, we need to think of things that are bigger than ourselves as well to find that. 

Cherie Canning: Yes. 

Dinesh Palipana: Yeah. So I do think we need to believe in things that are bigger than us. 

Cherie Canning: Hmm. Hmm. Yes. Can you tell me about empathy? If I, if you'd, if you'd thrown the values chat back on me and said, Sheree, what do you think my values might be?

Cherie Canning: I'd be like, Dinesh, empathy would have to be in there for you. Um, Okay. Practically from a, what I understand from afar, the way that, what do you, what do you embody? And, um, how do you go about life? Uh, what are your thoughts on that word, on that way of being? How does that connect for you? 

Dinesh Palipana: Yeah, and I think since we're on the topic of leadership, I think, again, in the things that make up leadership, I feel like empathy is a big part of it.

Dinesh Palipana: But empathy is also understanding our fellow human being. And in our world, we are more connected in ways than we are separated. I find it amazing, um, discovering all these little connections that we have with little people, um, um, along the way and, and like, we, we, we, we are so connected across the seas and in this world, but, um, empathy is.

Dinesh Palipana: It's critical, right? It's critical to spend time understanding our fellow human being. It's critical to spend time understanding why and how they feel a certain way. Um, it is, it is, it's what will make the world move forward. But on this point, I think we, um, we find it very easy to make time to understand people who are not.

Dinesh Palipana: Similar to us, or think similarly to us, or might be, might have the same political affiliation or might have the same religious beliefs or might have the same scientific, uh, persuasions or whatever it might be. But I think actually the, the true value lies in understanding people and being empathetic to people who are different to us.

Mm. Mm. 

Dinesh Palipana: And, um, we live in such a polarized society today. We live in such a divided society today. You know, you, you take up, um, a position on this thing, or you take a position on that thing, and they're the polar opposites. And then suddenly you become a polarized society. You know, a communist or a capitalist, so you become a, I don't know, whatever we throw these labels around so quickly, but actually I think if we dig underneath the surface, all of us, um, or at least I believe 99 percent of us want good things for our world and good things for our people.

Dinesh Palipana: And so if we can find those common threads, um, we can, we can create a better future because we're just, yeah, we, we, we are creating a lot of division. Is it, is a big part of solving that 

Cherie Canning: agreed practically, how do you practice empathy? Like if we were to follow you around when you're working, um, in the ER and working with patients or in, in other parts of the work you do, um, yeah, how would we see empathy Act it out.

Dinesh Palipana: Well, I don't know if it's a conscious thing, but I feel like empathy is a, again, a collection of different things. 

But 

Dinesh Palipana: one of the most powerful bits of advice that I've ever got is, um, from, uh, from a teacher who had a very important impact on my journey. And, uh, she's a, she's a doctor, so she's a medical educator.

Dinesh Palipana: And, uh, she says that. We have two ears and one mouth, and we should use them in that ratio. 

Yes. 

Cherie Canning: Yes. I love that. You know, in some of our training workshops, when we're talking about communication, I ask everyone to draw a face with all the items on the face. And they're like, how many ears, how many mouths, you know, use them in proportion.

Cherie Canning: It's so true. So true. And what about, you know, the, the person who's, um, Oh, there's so many phrases about the person who's listening or speaking, you know, who's actually learning, um, from those perspectives. I think Andy is rejoining. Um, yeah, so, so important. 

Dinesh Palipana: Yeah, I think if we just spent a little bit more time listening to people, we understand, right?

Dinesh Palipana: We, we can learn a lot and we can understand a lot 

and 

Dinesh Palipana: people have amazing stories. You know, I was at a, um, wedding recently and it was a, it was an African wedding, which was incredible. So it was, um, it was an amazing experience, but, uh, there was a Rwandan family there. So, we started talking and I heard their story and the mum of this family was saying, um, that she, she, uh, lifted her pants up a little bit to show her knees.

Dinesh Palipana: And there were gunshot wounds through both legs. And she said, you know, I was in Rwanda and when the troubles happened and I was shot, and these are the, these are the wounds from the guns. And I, uh, lost consciousness. And, um, next thing I knew I woke up, I don't know how long afterwards, but. I woke up because bugs were eating me.

Dinesh Palipana: So, um, there were ants and bugs all over me. And then she just said she dragged herself, um, some safety. And I was like, Dad, that is like, what, what, what is that human experience? But there, you know, like, if we just take a second to listen to someone like that, We're gonna understand that far out. The guy who cut me off on the traffic doesn't matter, right?

Dinesh Palipana: Like, or, or the fact that, I don't know, like, like we get upset at the small things. 

Yeah. 

Dinesh Palipana: This person like, they were shot in the legs and then were eaten by bugs and then you think, yeah, you know, these are, these are real problems that people have. 

Cherie Canning: Yeah. Yeah. Completely. One of the questions I wanted to ask you, and it's actually, um.

Cherie Canning: It's so funny that you've just shared that story because it was like, what advice would you give to people who face challenges that they seem insurmountable? 

Dinesh Palipana: So we are a universe within each of us. And I think, um, uh, The world is a reflection of us in a way, you know, if we're, if we're having a bad day, it's a dark world.

Dinesh Palipana: If we're having a good day, it's a beautiful world. Um, if we're sad, then the rain is, uh, the rain is depressing. But if we're happy, the rain is beautiful, right? So I think the world is a reflection of ourself. And we are a world within ourselves. So, um, I think for the guy who has, you know, I had a toothache a few weeks ago and it was terrible, right?

Dinesh Palipana: It was the tooth hurts. It's in my head. Like I'm, I'm up all night and this and that, and I see people coming, but it's just a toothache in the, in the, in the big scheme of things. Um, but for the person who's having a toothache, it's the biggest problem in the world at that time. Okay. Until that goes away.

Dinesh Palipana: Um, even though it's, it's, it's, it's probably not a huge issue than the dentist can sort it out before too long. And it's the same with like those, you know, we get those little things that might be a part of our body that bothers us because the clothes not sitting right or something, you know, there's a bit of discomfort.

Dinesh Palipana: So, we're, we're, we're a world within us and I think one thing to acknowledge is that for, for every different person their problem may actually feel like the biggest thing on earth and for them it is. And that's okay, that's, that's a part of life. Everyone's different and everyone has issues and everyone, and we have to acknowledge and respect and understand that.

Dinesh Palipana: But I think um, A way to navigate that is really to have some perspective about, um, how lucky we are and to have perspective about the people who are unlucky that, like my new friend who was shot in the legs, um, and who couldn't walk around and they think far out people, people have some serious problems in this world, right?

Dinesh Palipana: There are people right now getting shot in other parts of the world, like right now, people are being shot at. 

Yeah. So. 

Dinesh Palipana: So, there's that, and then I think another strategy is to count our blessings. And, uh, and I always wonder if there's, uh, there's a lot of, um, merit to some of the religious practices that we've, we've been doing, or the rituals that we've been doing, you know, like at Thanksgiving once a year in the U.

Dinesh Palipana: S. or in, uh, Christianity, we give thanks to our meal every night. Um, in Buddhism, there are similar. philosophies, but I think giving thanks to the things that we do have, um, reminds us that surely even though today's a really hard day, I still have food. I still have shelter. I still have a pair of shoes. Um, so I'm, I'm, I'm still talking to Andy and Cherie and those are, those are pretty good wins.

Dinesh Palipana: So also giving thanks, I think, um, is a, is a spiritual religious and personal activity that we've been doing for a long time. And maybe there's something to it. 

Cherie Canning: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, the research on say gratitude and how it rewires our brain, like the research backs that up, doesn't it? 

Dinesh Palipana: There, there are studies.

Dinesh Palipana: There are some studies, um, uh, that, that demonstrate that, Hey, maybe there's something here. Yeah, for sure. 

Cherie Canning: Yeah. Yeah, it's literally, I've got my little note here. Dinesh, outlook on life, gratitude and perspective, which it's like 100 percent the conversation, um, which is, it's just so powerful. Andy, for you, questions?

Andy Canning: I, I love that, um, kind of anecdote that Dinesh just shared. I remember one of the more interesting 10 minute experiences I had this year was just at a rooftop on a hotel in Sydney, chatting to a guy who was, who was just kind of like, smuggling a beer up, basically, just to have a look out and see the sites.

Andy Canning: And after 10 minutes, um, found out like his name is Joe. He served in a couple of tours in Afghanistan. He kind of comes from an army family. And, um, I asked him like, what is, you know, what is, what does a hard landing look like for a vet when you come back from war? And what does a soft landing look like?

Andy Canning: He sort of pulled up his His, um, pants, he, and he showed me that there's a piece of his shinbone missing from where he got shot by the Taliban. And then he proceeded to talk about how, um, he spent, you know, the better part of six months in, in Frankfurt, basically in a hospital bed. Um, so he, he got shot there, but, but then, um, he was, um, Part of, um, part of his deployment, I guess, um, they, they got blown up by an IED and lost two, two of his closest mates that day, um, that he'd enlisted with and, and served with, and, and I remember walking away from that, not too dissimilar to the story you just told, um, and just thinking, And like he was, I've ever seen him, he was just looking out, looking at the streets of Sydney, you know, in the middle of the CBD, not exactly a quiet place.

Andy Canning: And he's just like, how good is this? People are just walking along, like there's no risk to them right now. You know, they're kind of just enjoying it. They're soaking it up. There's lots of atmosphere. And I know for that moment, it took me away from whatever activity was happening kind of in my head or whatever perspective I'd lost had come back in that moment.

Andy Canning: And I'm like, well, you know, you just. You're kind of there in the moment that you're in and, and I wonder if that that's such a big link to, and apologies, I might have missed this before, but a big link to, um, mental health is, is a link through to perspective. And, uh, and, uh, I wonder like over time and I'm probably sharing my own journey here where I know that if I just get a bit off, which happens from time to time, it can be just a lack of probably seeing the forest for the trees and, and, you know, having that.

Andy Canning: Okay. Having that kind of bigger view and knowing those that there's plenty of things to be grateful for and plenty of things to kind of be in the moment for and things can be. It's that jewel thing in your mind, right? Where things can be tough and you can acknowledge that they're tough, but then also they're also beautiful.

Andy Canning: And then through that struggle is some kind of. Some kind of message or lesson or thing to hold. 

Dinesh Palipana: I love that. And I love that story because I think it's, it's poetic, right? So on top of a building with you, there's this person who fought for a cause and and was wounded in it and sort of, um, up on this building, looking out into the world again.

Dinesh Palipana: And, uh, his outlook's probably so different to the people who are wandering down there on the streets, because how many of those people actually are thinking that, that I'm safe and that I'm soaking up this atmosphere? I wonder.

Andy Canning: Probably not that many, I'd say, you know, like it's um, I mean, it's obviously a rhetorical question. I wouldn't expect, I wouldn't expect Dinesh to, um, to look to, to look to me for the answers there, but it, it, it was kind of, it was just really, it was a unique moment, you know, and, and that's the, the message and the essence that I got all through your book as well is that they're, they're just sort of fundamentally unique moments.

Andy Canning: And in, in kind of retrospect, you can apply them to. To the current day, and you can apply them to whatever you're happening. So today, today was the miso soup and it was glorious. And you can, you can fund that and you can, you can enjoy that and other people can enjoy it too. And how lucky are we to have that?

Andy Canning: So lucky. 

Cherie Canning: Yeah, so lucky. So lucky. I, I, I laugh at the, um, the concept of the rain, you know, it's. How glorious that we've got this beautiful rain because it's, it's cooling down this heat. Um, but then, you know, at the same time, I think earlier today I said on a message to someone, I hope your day isn't as gloomy as the rain right now, but it, it's so, it's so, um, yeah, it's such an important reminder of our perspective and there's always a choice, always a choice.

Dinesh Palipana: Always a choice. And I think that's the, that's the key part, isn't it? The choice. The choices that we make. We are so lucky to have free will and choice. And even amongst human beings, the three of us have more choice than many people ever will. 

Cherie Canning: Yeah, yes. And You know, I feel like extremely grateful. And I know that now we're talking about giving thanks and gratitude.

Cherie Canning: It may sound, um, too scripted, but like I have just immense excitement bursting out of me that you've chosen. And I'm so deeply grateful that you've chosen to come and have this conversation with us. Um, I. I first, I saw that the awards you were winning, um, a couple of year or two ago or recently. Um, and so I've seen your name and I saw your TED talk pop up and I'm like, cool, this guy's cool.

Cherie Canning: And then it wasn't until, um, some good friends of ours from Cornerstone Medical Recruitment and you're on there. Yeah. And so you're on their podcast and I'm like, and had a little listen. And then when we had a, a long weekend. Actually, it was um, at Virgin Australia. They, they handed out your book at Virgin Australia.

Cherie Canning: I think maybe it was a, Andy correct me if I'm wrong here, but there was a, um, it was all around diversity or was it around a day for ability and disability awareness or something? 

Andy Canning: Yes, it, it very well could have been. I mean, that's 

Cherie Canning: what I remember. And you came home and said, they've given these books out today.

Cherie Canning: Like it was a significant day in the calendar for diversity and inclusion, and they gave you books out at Virgin. And so I'm like, I'll read that. Cause I straight away. And I, I recall, um, so clearly, putting it on my Instagram and you responding and I went, Oh my goodness, thank you so much. And, and then, um, very courageously said, any chance you'd want to come and chat with us on this podcast.

Cherie Canning: And I remember Sam had said to me, Sam McClough from Cornerstone said, Oh, one of the things I loved about Dinesh is he said, he just says yes to opportunity. Um, and yeah, I'm just so grateful that you agreed and you were able to, to gift your time to us and. To me, then it's so aligned to that legacy and the impact and your philosophies and way of seeing life.

Cherie Canning: Like I have no doubt will change someone's day to day when they listen, um, as it has for us. But yeah, I really thank you so much for that. 

Dinesh Palipana: Thanks, Sheree. And, um, the crew it's, it's, it's a privilege for me. I always think, man, I can't believe I'm Uh, someone who'd want to talk to me and listen to me and chat with me.

Dinesh Palipana: So, uh, I, I am, I am very grateful and I'm, uh, I'm often humbled hugely. 

Cherie Canning: Oh, it's amazing. Can you, I feel like I can't finish this conversation without you telling us about your mum. Tell us about what your mum means to you and, um, cause I just think listening to the way you've written about your mum in your book is, is next level.

Cherie Canning: Um, and yeah, would you mind sharing a few words of the impact and how she inspires you? 

Dinesh Palipana: Yeah, I think when we talk about Things like empathy and courage, uh, and perspective. I feel like my mom is one of those people who has for me embodied all these things. She's a hero. And she's been there for me. Um, after the spinal cord injury happened, she's been there for me all my life.

Dinesh Palipana: She's taught me so many things. And I think, um, she's taught me about what love really is because it's unconditional from her. Like, like, okay. It is a mother's love or, uh, her love is. It's been unconditional for her kid. And when I really struggled, she gave up her marriage. When I had the accident, she gave up her career.

Dinesh Palipana: We, it's very hard to find that kind of love in this world and in this universe. So mom has taught me so many things and, uh, she continues to fight for others. And yeah, I just think people ask me who my hero is. I don't really have to look far, she's stomping around nearby. 

Cherie Canning: As a mum, I, I only dream of the day that my daughter is an adult and is able to say, you know, that every day I hope that that is the impact or the way that she sees me.

Cherie Canning: We've got to get through some teen years, um, yet, you know, I'm sure we'll come through all that. But, uh, yeah, that's just stunning. I do have another random question when it comes to heroes, but it may not be a hero. Maybe it's purely just decorative, but behind you, you've got some pictures and I can only kind of half of them.

Cherie Canning: Who, who are in your photos? 

Dinesh Palipana: So I love, uh, I love music. Music's a big part of my life. And I think a bit of that came out of growing out of, um, growing up in Byron Bay. So Byron Bay was a very musical town and it's, you know, it's, uh, I learned to play guitar there. It was just, uh, it was a beautiful place to grow up in.

Dinesh Palipana: So I actually was chatting to an old schoolmate who's a teacher now in Melbourne, and he gave me my very first Rap mixtape and the song on it was regulate by Warren G. So that tape when I was, I think probably about 13 years old started this lifelong love of music and hip hop and rap. So the pictures behind me were given to me by, um, by a friend and it's, uh, Tupac and Biggie and Eazy E.

Dinesh Palipana: So they're, um, the paintings of those three and the, you know, rap icons. So, uh, That's who they are. That 

Cherie Canning: is cool. That is cool. I'm like looking at half, I'm seeing their, you know, their chest and I'm like, Oh, who is that? Who is that? Awesome. 

Andy Canning: Dinesh, we have something in common there. I remember the first ever mixtape that someone ever gave me was like in grade four, um, at, uh, my own version of Eight Mile at the time, uh, which is kind of at Eagle Junction State School and, and just on, um, just off Junction Road there.

Andy Canning: And, uh, I remember the, the first song on the mixtape was Regulate. Uh, regulators or something like that. And then I actually can't remember what the rest of the songs were, because I remember as soon as, um, song two, three, and four came on, my mom confiscated the mixtape because every, every second or third word was, um, one of the unmentionables and, uh, you know, for a kind of a budding nine year old, that was maybe a little bit too much at the time, but man, I loved it.

Andy Canning: And certainly, um, the. Uh, the, I don't, when I ran a, ran a marathon this year and then part of the training for that was almost dialing back. All the songs and all the music that, that I had from like the nineties and the two thousands that I got introduced or influenced to that would, um, just be super upbeat and, and hip hop and, and rap or punk was just such huge part of that for me, unashamedly so, but also a little bit of embarrassment admitting that out loud, but, you know, music is such a personal thing, right?

Andy Canning: It's like where it takes you and, and, um, and, and what it encourages you to do. So I 

Dinesh Palipana: love it. That's so cool. Shared history. 

Cherie Canning: That is awesome. Um, Andy, do you have any last questions? 

Andy Canning: Uh, I, uh, no, I don't. I just so grateful. So grateful that we get to share a minute or two, um, with you today and, and, and be gently reminded of how beautiful life is and, and how important it is to stay in the moment to, um, get that perspective.

Andy Canning: So thank you. Thank you both for having me. You're amazing. 

Cherie Canning: Thank you. It's an absolute pleasure. Keep making the change in the world that you are. And um, yes, thank you so, so much for your time. And I'm just, yeah, really grateful that we've had this moment. Thank you. 

Dinesh Palipana: Likewise. See you soon, Sheree and Andy.

Cherie Canning: Thanks for joining us on the Lead with Courage podcast. We illuminate leadership. And it's our mission to inspire and grow the leaders of today to create a better tomorrow. We hope and trust that this episode has given you some insights and joy to empower you to live your biggest, best life. If you did enjoy the episode, we'd be so grateful for you to rate and share wherever you listen to this podcast.

Cherie Canning: And until next time, go and lead with courage.