From Waves to Well-Being | Cooper Chapman - The Good Human Factory | Lead with Courage

Cherie sits down with Cooper Chapman, former professional surfer and founder of the Good Human Factory, for an inspiring and deeply reflective conversation. Cooper shares his transformative journey of moving from chasing external validation to living authentically through his core values. Together, they explore the significance of shifting from mental health awareness to action, the life-changing power of gratitude, and how small, consistent steps can lead to a more meaningful and impactful life.

Drawing on his experiences as an athlete, Cooper reveals the pivotal moments that reshaped his mindset, from overcoming a victim mentality to embracing mindfulness and intentional living. He also talks about the creation of the 1% Good Club, a global community that encourages daily practices of gratitude and meditation—positively influencing thousands of lives.

In this episode, Cherie and Cooper dive into the role of empathy in leadership, the importance of actionable habits for mental well-being, and how incorporating values into daily life can create long-lasting change.

This conversation is a powerful reminder that progress, not perfection is the key to thriving in life and leadership. Whether you're looking to build resilience, lead with courage, or inspire growth in others, this episode is packed with practical insights and meaningful takeaways to help you live a more fulfilled and values-driven life.

Instagram: @cooperchapman and @thegoodhumanfactory

Website thegoodhumanfactory.com

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Thanks for joining us on the Lead with Courage podcast, bought to you by Luminate Leadership. We trust this episode has given you some insights and joy to empower you live your biggest, best life.

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Until the next episode, we hope you live and Lead with Courage!
Cherie and Andy x
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Luminate Leadership is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14.

Transcript

Cherie Canning: Well, Cooper Chapman, welcome to the Lead with Courage podcast. Welcome, welcome, welcome.

Cooper Chapman: How you going? Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here. 

Cherie Canning: Thank you for being here. I'm, I'm really excited. I know you have a very full life doing a lot of great work all over the world. So thank you for choosing to be here and making the time. 

Cooper Chapman: That's my absolute pleasure. I'm sure we're going to have a great chat and hopefully everyone leaves with, you know, one or two things that spark a bit of curiosity and, you know, give them a couple of tools to thrive through life.

Cherie Canning: That is the plan. That's the plan. Before we jump in to the work you're doing and sharing some tools, we always have a first question that we ask on this podcast, which is, what does lead with courage mean to you? 

Cooper Chapman: What does lead with courage mean to me? I think leading with courage means living by your values.

Cooper Chapman: I mean, for me, for so long in my life, I Sort of led with external validation, led with sort of a victim mindset. What are other people going to think rather than like, what am I going to think about myself? So for me, leading with courage is having the courage to be yourself and not having to try and, you know, be somebody to impress somebody, but, you know, living by your own values.

Cooper Chapman: So. I don't know if you've had an answer like that before, but I think women with courage is just, yeah, having the, you know, courage to be yourself and lead with authenticity. 

Cherie Canning: Yes, absolutely agree. How can I ask you about values? How did you, how did you land on your values? Was it something you sat down and worked through?

Cherie Canning: Was it something that over time it's become clearer? What's the path for you? 

Cooper Chapman: Yeah, it's been a bit of a journey for me. I mean, I used to be a professional athlete and lived a pretty extraordinary life, you know, as a professional surfer traveling the world, having this life that most people would look at it and somewhat envy, or just think like, wow, you've got the perfect life, which I mean, I absolutely did, but I probably didn't have the perfect mindset for a lot of my junior career up until probably like my early to mid twenties.

Cooper Chapman: Once again, I was leading with this external validation, what other people thought of me. And I didn't recognize at the time how unhealthy that was, because at times, you know, we don't reach these big goals that we set out to reach. And if I wasn't reaching my goals, I felt less, you know, insignificant, sort of awkward, awkward, embarrassed, ashamed when I wasn't reaching these big goals.

Cooper Chapman: And then my, um, psychologist kind of challenged me and he said, like, pro surfing's what you do, mate. But it's not who you are. And I was like, well, what do you mean? And he's like, what are your values? And I was like, Oh, I guess like, you know, kindness, respect, honesty, all these ones that I've been told about a lot as a kid, but then he said like, but how old do you actually live to those values?

Cooper Chapman: And that was the first time that I'd actually stopped and really reflected on sort of how my actions align with my values. 

Cherie Canning: Yeah. 

Cooper Chapman: I want a bit of a sort of exploration throughout my twenties to like, try and find where my value, what my values were. And, you know, there's some great. Online quizzes and things like this that can give you a bit of evidence, what your values are.

Cooper Chapman: But for me, it was kind of a bit of a journey of exploring, reading other people's stories, whether it be through books or listening to podcasts or watching documentaries and looking at sort of people that I'm. Inspired by not just by their achievements, but more so by the people they are and some people come to mind are like Mick Fanning Just such an incredible human the way that he holds himself more so outside of surfing Just a great guy And another one that I refer to quite often is um, Andre Agassi And if anyone's read his book or knows anything about his story, like he was a bad boy in tennis And you know was very unhappy unhealthy through his early 20s heavily into drugs and alcohol Um But then in his late twenties, you know, started a school for disadvantaged kids, started to donate a lot of his time and money to this school and he began to be, you know, fulfilled again and lived a great life.

Cooper Chapman: And what I took from that was he found his values, you know, kindness, generosity, giving back and living to those values made him, you know, live a far better and more fulfilled life. So, I was just sort of like throughout my twenties looking for evidence in people who I look up to, who, you know, outside of their career are just good humans.

Cooper Chapman: And that's, um, been my sort of journey to understanding what values work for me and what values if I live by them, I can maintain, you know, good balance in my own wellbeing. 

Cherie Canning: Oh, so, so good. And there's so much of that that I love. Like I think just in the sporting arena, like, as you say, the external validation that I think that so many people.

Cherie Canning: We, we aim for this in our lives or strive for this in our lives. And, um, the language you're using there just reminds me so much about listening to Ben Crow when he speaks, you know, about who, who do you, who are you versus what do you do versus a human being versus a human doing? And yeah. So how long can you tell me with, um, when you're on that journey, were you still surfing at that time?

Cooper Chapman: Yeah, absolutely. That was like kind of really in the crux of my surf career at like an important time to find those values. So I had a pretty successful junior career and I always sort of rode this rollercoaster, like if I won comps, I felt great. And if I was losing on average, and then yeah, at about 21, I got that lesson, um, and started to understand my values a bit more.

Cooper Chapman: And then funnily enough, I went to the, um, first ever surfing Olympics training camp at. I think I was about 23 when this happened and I just lost my major sponsor. So I was kind of, you know, in this place where external validation was at an extreme low, like I'd been lost my major sponsor. I was finding it really hard to support my surf career sort of on the verge of giving up.

Cooper Chapman: And Ben Crow is actually one of the speakers at the Olympics camp. And he sort of reiterated that lesson of like, you know, pro surfing is what you do, but it's not who you are guys. And that sent me onto, you know, really leaning into this values work and understanding who I was and, you know, the back part of my surf career, sort of, I'd say from 23 to 28, I traveled the world without a sponsor.

Cooper Chapman: So I had no money coming in from any support from any brands or businesses. I was doing it all off my own back of, you know, Being a tradie assistant to working at a surf school to doing every little job I could to save enough money to go to my surf comps and, you know, for the first part of that journey, part of my journey, I had a very big victim mindset, you know, I'd look at the world and be like, you know, these guys are Ranked way lower than me, but I'm not getting paid anything and they're getting paid good.

Cooper Chapman: And, you know, it was always this victim, like what I don't have mindset. And that was where these values started to really shine through because I kind of realized like I can make a choice. Like I'm the only one living in my own head I can Look at the world through the lens of a victim. Or I can look at the world through the lens of gratitude and look at the world through a lens of mindfulness and being present.

Cooper Chapman: And, um, you know, my dad always told me as a kid, like appreciation, not expectation, Cooper. And I remember sitting on the beach in, um, South Africa, right about six months or 12 months into this journey of working full time to go and pay for my surf comms, you know, sort of self soothing with drugs and alcohol to get through that period of my life.

Cooper Chapman: And then I was sitting on the beach this day and I remember like looking out at the waves and about to paddle out for this big competition with this like terrible mindset, like, I can't believe that guy's getting paid. Look, I'm in this third round of the comp and look at all these guys who have been knocked out already that I'm doing better than, and then I was just like, wait, like, What is, this is so stupid, this mindset.

Cooper Chapman: Like there's guys at home that I work with on the job site right now, digging holes while I'm sitting in South Africa, going surfing. And I get that's coming from an absolute place of privilege with the life that I've lived. But I also understand that all of us can make that choice every single day. Do we look through the lens of what don't I have, or what do I have?

Cooper Chapman: It doesn't matter who you are, where you're at in life. We all have challenges. Some are far greater than others. And I absolutely respect that. But we all have a few little things that we can, you know, shine the light on that are going well. Whether you, you know, you're taking a breath today, it's more than a lot of people who are going to pass away today.

Cooper Chapman: Whether you, you know, you've got eyesight or you've got use of all your body. So many people don't. And um, very often we're really comparing across and up in life, which is important for, you know, sort of, Reaching and understanding, like it's good to have, um, you know, goals, but not enough of us are sort of comparing across and down the people who are a bit less fortunate than us.

Cooper Chapman: And, you know, comparison isn't super important in life, but I think it is important just to like, stop and reflect, like where you're at and where, how far you've come as well. So, yeah, through the Surfing Career Values, um, really helped me in the back part of my career, to be honest, to enjoy my life. lived when I was getting paid with that victim mindset that I should be getting paid more.

Cooper Chapman: And then when I wasn't getting paid to serve, that's when I began to actually be like, you know what, you know, life's pretty good. I'm traveling the world. I'm surfing. I'm with my friends. Sure. I'm, you know, doing it off the bat of working really hard and whatnot at home, but it's, um, you know, a lot more than a lot of people.

Cherie Canning: Yeah, and almost that sense when you get out of that victim mentality, that sense of satisfaction that you're doing it yourself to write that it's, it's that drive internally. And I love that perspective when you're saying across or up. And often I think across or down, like just gives us, it's not about better than, but just perspective, isn't it?

Cherie Canning: Just gives us perspective of what else could be. I've heard a few people say, and I do really agree is that. We don't want that comparison, um, with what's the phrase it's just, of course, it's just escape. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I live by that phrase. All right. The comparison is a thief of joy, but also the comparison, like suffering comparison of suffering where sometimes this is kind of counterintuitive to this conversation, but also when we see things for what they are.

Cherie Canning: Where we go, Oh, well, I should be. And this is when we talk about gratitude, I think this is an important piece. It's like when people say, you know, I should be grateful for these because people have got it worse than me, but it's almost removing the shoulds because I think that's the expectation, isn't it?

Cherie Canning: Rather than appreciating, if you are in a tough place, accepting the yes. And like, I am in a tough place and this is what I can see. That is that I'm grateful for. I can appreciate what are your thoughts on that? 

Cooper Chapman: I completely agree. And that's why I really tried to precursor with like, I understand that I come from like an absolute place of privilege being like, you know, young white male who's, you know, grown up as a professional athlete with a lot of opportunity.

Cooper Chapman: Like, don't get me wrong. I didn't come from any sort of wealth, but I definitely had family and parents who, you know, afforded me all the opportunities I wanted and worked very hard for what I achieved. But yeah, I think so It is hard to sort of talk about gratitude from the position I'm in, but like you said, it's not about saying, Oh, I like, I don't have bad things going on.

Cooper Chapman: It's about, yes, I've got some really challenging things going on. Absolutely. But I can also choose each day to stop for a few minutes and recognize that there is a few good things. And if we, you know, understand the neuroscience of it, and there's so much great data and now studies that show, like, Just by shining that light on the few positive things that are going on as well as there's a lot of negative and sometimes it's so bloody hard to do it and sometimes you're in such a hard spot that you can't even see that and I absolutely understand that but it's just about trying to get back on that horse okay how can I practice a little bit of gratitude to get that release of the neurochemicals that make me feel okay so it's um yeah I completely empathize with people who are in that really challenging moment who are struggling with a mental illness who can't see that light But, um, yeah, just trying your best each day to shine, you know, a little bit of light on the positive things, um, I believe is really important.

Cherie Canning: Yeah, yeah, likewise, likewise. So talk us through you, um, toward the end of the career, because I'd love to kind of learn about what the shift to where you are now is. Um, and surfing did, was it a choice to finish surfing? Was there an event that finished the surfing career? I mean, I'm sure he's still surfing.

Cherie Canning: Um, but not, you know, in those comps as, as regularly. Where, what, what was the story there? 

Cooper Chapman: I've got wet hair right now. 

Cherie Canning: I'm sure you never stopped surfing, but just to what level? 

Cooper Chapman: I mean, I had a pretty, pretty solid awareness throughout my whole surf career. Like I never quite made it to the top 32 in the world, which is sort of the goal in surfing the world tour, which is, um, I mean, pretty elite when you really look at it, when you zoom out, like there's millions and millions of surfs in the world, far more surfers in the world than there are rugby league players.

Cooper Chapman: And to make the top 32 in the world, that's like trying to make just the Australian team. Like you have to be the elite of the elite on the whole planet to get to the top 32. I was kind of ranked between 50 and 100 for most of my surf career. I kind of always dreamed of getting there and felt like I could get there, but it just didn't fall my way because I mean, but I always had this awareness that, you know, surfing is not going to be forever.

Cooper Chapman: You know, not many athletes get past the age of 30 and are still competing at a high level. So I always had this awareness that I need to find something else. So off the back of that, I was always also like, Quite entrepreneurial coming up with ideas. What can I do to not sort of be in that rat race of being on a, you know, on a wage or on a yearly salary, how can I create my own sort of opportunity?

Cooper Chapman: Um, so with that mindset, I, throughout my surf career was always looking for things and trying to work out what I could do, but I also towards sort of the mid to end of my career, really going off these values piece was started to recognize that. Yeah, we kind of climb this mountain of sort of self achievement, trying to, you know, reach big goals, become top athletes, climb the corporate ladder.

Cooper Chapman: But then you get very near the top of it, like I did, you know, top hundred in the world in something, and you look over and there's this other mountain that is like, oh, that's a mountain of service to other people, of giving back, of sharing what you've learned. And that's what really fulfills you. You know, now doing the work I do, I really understand that, you know, kindness and mindfulness and all these different skills that I teach now really bring fulfillment and then giving back and generosity.

Cooper Chapman: Absolutely as well. So off the guise of all of that, I was always like, what can I do? And I'd, um, I'd run some surf camps to sort of make some money on the side before. And my, um, I'd run these camps and a few of the kids, when I was doing the camps, I taught them about mindfulness because I feel like it's a great skill as an athlete to learn how to be present, to focus on what's happening right now, not have your past and future thinking.

Cooper Chapman: And then after the camp, a lot of the parents said, like, the kids really love the mindfulness and love learning it from you. Now, you know, a 25 year old at the time, book I teach it and this stuff. You know, it was quite nice for them. And then, um, back in 2018, my youngest of three sisters was in her last year of high school.

Cooper Chapman: And she came home from school one day, and I always tell this story that she lost two friends to suicide, but speaking to her about it recently, she's like, no, no, no, the first one died actually in a car crash. And then one of the other boys in the car took his own life two weeks later. And in that moment, I just kind of, I really started to think about mental illness and recognize like the big issue we have after I did some research when it comes to young people and mental health issues and suicide.

Cooper Chapman: And you know, I'd lost an uncle to suicide. I'd watch my dad struggle. And as I mentioned, like I'd had moments of, You know, real challenges when it came to my identity and not living by values and victim mindset and external validation. So I'd had my challenges, but I'd also had a bit of fear of reaching out like most of us do.

Cooper Chapman: You know, there's so much great studies that show people find it really hard to reach out. I feel like I was very lucky that I had the capacity to research stuff and, you know, go on that exploration through my twenties and learn some really valuable stuff that I never learned at school. So when my sister lost that second friend or the second friend took his own life, I was like, maybe I can go and talk to like some of the kids at my old high school and, you know, just share my story, these little lessons I've learned and, um, it might help them.

Cooper Chapman: So I went and spoke to a school teacher of mine who was a maid and said, can I come and, you know, share my story with the kids at our old school and maybe it'll help one of them. Like that's. That's always my goal. If I can help one person when I walk into a room of 50, 100, 200, then I've done my job. Like, that's kind of all you can ever ask for.

Cooper Chapman: And you know, my data now shows I help, you know, a large portion of the room. So that's where the Good Human Factory started was, you know, going and doing one workshop at a high school that I used to go to and then COVID hit and I couldn't do workshops for a year or two. And I You know, did more research and did a few short courses around the science of well being and started the Good Human Factory podcast and started interviewing experts in well being and just, um, fascinating people who have achieved amazing feats in their life and began to share those lessons through workshops with high schools, which then turned into corporates.

Cooper Chapman: And, um, yeah, that's what I do full time. I retired from surfing after I mean, I retired from surfing in 2022, so still with Good Human Factory, working full time as a tradie to fund the surfing career, surfing full time, and then the Good Human Factory is a very part time thing, and now it's just evolved into, you know, my full time gig, and it keeps me beyond busy, so, um, That's a very weird, like journey of where it started, where I got into what I'm doing.

Cooper Chapman: And yeah, now I'm just lucky enough to try my best to learn really important information, bring it down to a really digestible and easy to action things, and then pass it on. 

Cherie Canning: Oh, that's amazing. And you know, I was lucky enough, um, to sit in one of your sessions the other day, um, at one place, the place real estate, um, conference.

Cherie Canning: And so I was in the room and. I agree with you about the digestible, really relatable, very real, uh, what I loved about your session. And it, it helped me too. So when you go, well, what's the one person that would have helped lots of people in the room, but I thank you for that. Um, I, what I loved, So much. I love, and in particular, I really loved not overdoing the tech speak about it all that you can see that you've done your research.

Cherie Canning: You know that you know what you're talking about, and it's a legit knowledge, but sometimes I think people can get too scientific and to, um, I mean, the science and neuroscience is critical, but the way that we communicate that with people don't, we don't overdo it because it's not about a science lesson.

Cherie Canning: It's around how do people Put this into their day. And one thing that really struck me and I've written it down to ask you about. And I've, um, with, I hope you don't mind, but I started saying the same thing is let's stop talking about mental health awareness and let's start talking about mental health action.

Cherie Canning: Um, because so often you're so right. And I think in, in October was mental health awareness month, you know, and it's like, no, let's, let's bring that to the action. Tell can you tell me a little bit more about that, um, your drive around the awareness versus action? 

Cooper Chapman: Yeah. I mean, if you just look at the data and the stats, like.

Cooper Chapman: I mean, anyone listening right now can definitely agree, like we can all agree that mental health awareness is at an all time high, which is so important that we're talking about it more that we're, you know, you know, doing campaigns, there's charities popping up everywhere, people doing so much great work in the space, but the numbers are still getting worse.

Cooper Chapman: So I think it's really important that we move from, you know, just mental health awareness to mental health action. And I also think it's important that we sort of decipher between mental health and mental illness. So often when we hear the word mental health and mental health awareness. We're really bringing a lot of awareness to mental illnesses, we're bringing awareness to depression, anxiety, if people are struggling, seeking help, you know, calling Lifeline, going to your EAP at work, like, it's so important that we reach out for help.

Cooper Chapman: When we get to that point of struggle, if 20 percent of us will be diagnosed with a mental illness, generally what I find from my workshop is, You know, you mentioned the word mental health and 80 percent of the room kind of not roll their eyes, but go like, Oh, okay. Another one of those talks. This isn't really for me.

Cooper Chapman: I'm not really struggling with mental illness, but I really try and make it, um, you know, really Simple and so like just because you don't have mental illness doesn't mean you shouldn't work on your mental health. Mental health is about maintenance. Mental health isn't a destination. It's a journey and I say to people like imagine you've got a treadmill with Perfect mental health up the, you know, the end of the treadmill, like the carrot dangling.

Cooper Chapman: And mental illness is when you fall off the back of the treadmill. You can never get to the, or you might sprint to the top of the treadmill, but guess what? Life's gonna slowly start to bring you back towards mental illness. It's not about having a really good mental health care plan for a month, and then going, sweet, I'm good, I'll wait till I get back to the back and then run to the top again.

Cooper Chapman: Not at all. It's about what are the things that I'm doing every single day to take a step or two against that metaphorical treadmill. And that's what I really think mental health action is. What are the daily things that we're doing to step against that treadmill? Mental health awareness, I think is showing that, Hey, once you fall off the treadmill, here's all the incredible things that you can do, that you can reach out to the resources that we have.

Cooper Chapman: But I really think it's important that we start to educate people and the different things that you can do. But more importantly, inspire them to take those actions so that we see less people ending up off that back of the treadmill. 

Cherie Canning: Yes, I love the treadmill analogy. And I think, you know, when you look at the mental health continuum, being mentally well and then mentally ill, that's really important.

Cherie Canning: I love that. And reminding us that 80%, you know, that's 80 percent of us. How do we get into that green? Or if you start, um, hitting that yellow orange, like what are the skills, the tools, one thing I've noticed, uh, following your socials, which I absolutely love. And I don't know if it's an always on thing, or if it's just been more with October in particular, and then it's carried on.

Cherie Canning: Um, but I see your posts around, you know, three things you're grateful for each day and meditating every day. Um, can you, is that, do you just post that every day? Is it just maybe I've only just started noticing your Every 

Cooper Chapman: single 

Cherie Canning: day, so not just the last few months. On your socials, you're sharing that?

Cooper Chapman: Yeah. So I'll explain what it is and why I did it. So it's called the 1 percent good club. So basically over three years ago, now, 1341 days ago, I was lying down doing a 10 minute meditation and just thinking in my head, like mental health is, you know, such a challenge in the world. Like surely we can all agree that we can give 1 percent of our day to our mental health.

Cooper Chapman: Like, and sitting in the meditation, as we all do, I couldn't stop my mind thinking, and I literally stopped that meditation five minutes in and went, Oh my God, I've got to work out the mass. of what 1 percent of a 24 hour day. So 1, 440 minutes in a day, 1 percent of that is 14. 4 minutes. 14. 4 minutes is 14 minutes and 24 seconds.

Cooper Chapman: So I was like, Hmm, what could we do for 1 percent of our day or 14 minutes? So less than 1 day, that's good for your mental health. And that are free, that don't cost anything. There's no barrier to entry other than time. And 1 percent of your time is something we should all agree we can find the time to do.

Cooper Chapman: So that's a starting point where this started from and then I was also like you're far more likely to maintain a healthy habit if you have a community around you doing it with you. So I was like why don't I start an Instagram community where every single morning I'll send a link to a 10 minute meditation on Instagram in like a group chat and every single night I'll put three things I'm grateful for on my Instagram story.

Cooper Chapman: And I'll send that then to the group chat, and everyone can write in the group chat three things that they're grateful for. So that started, yeah, over three years ago now, and it grew from like 20 people on the first day to there's over 1, 500 members now from just strangers all around the world. It's completely free, it always will be.

Cooper Chapman: All you have to do is send at the Good Human Factory a direct message on Instagram. Saying, I want to join the club and you get added into a group chat. You get the link sent to you every morning. You can click to do the meditation every night. You see all your community, right? Three things they're grateful for.

Cooper Chapman: And it just sparks this, you know, positive sort of place. And in the last three years, there's been over half a million gratitude sent in from strangers all around the world. And to be honest, it's probably the thing that I'm most proud of. With the work that I do because it costs nothing. It's a free resource for anyone to be a part of.

Cooper Chapman: I haven't missed a day in over three years, which I'm, um, you know, super proud of, and just the anecdotal evidence I've seen from thousands of people who have, you know, tried to take that step and stayed consistent with it is, um, that it's having a massive positive influence on their life. Um, So yeah, that's just something that I'm, you know, that I offer to my community, to anyone who listens to me on a podcast to go and join for free.

Cooper Chapman: If you love it, hang around. If you don't, you can leave. There's no judgment at all. Like people come and go every day. Um, but it's just a way for me to give back and for me to stay consistent for those things that are good for our mental health. 

Cherie Canning: I absolutely love that. I've got it now. Now it all pieces up for me.

Cherie Canning: I'm going to be joining. And I think the other beautiful part, like when you're reading everyone's like, obviously expressing your own gratitude is rewiring our own pathways and it's having our Like you said, shining the light on something from that day, big or small, but then reading other people, it's almost like the act of kindness.

Cherie Canning: And then that just continues on, doesn't it? So I think it keeps those feel goods, or if you're not having a great day, sometimes seeing someone else's, the smallest thing someone can be grateful for that you go, yeah, that's right. I've had something like that today too. And yeah, it's so it's incredible.

Cherie Canning: Incredible. 

Cooper Chapman: And it's so beautiful because these communities of people see each other's gratitude every day. Some of the people have been in there for three years. So you start to like build a relationship with this stranger based on what they're grateful for each day. And, you know, some days people will be like, you know, today was a shitty day.

Cooper Chapman: I had, sorry if I can't swear. No, no, you 

Cherie Canning: can swear. 

Cooper Chapman: Sorry. I mean, today was, you know, an average day. I, you know, my. Dog passed away. And then you'll have like all of these strangers who know each other through just their gratitudes, getting around each other. Like, Oh, I'm so sorry for your loss. If you need it, someone to talk to you, direct message me privately.

Cooper Chapman: And you have all these people supporting each other just because of they're part of this 1 percent good community. 

Cherie Canning: That is absolutely brilliant. And yeah, that community, that sense of human connection. The world needs a lot more of this. I feel right now more than ever. I mean, I think it always does, but now more than ever, there's so many reasons that we're divided and we're not actually connected.

Cherie Canning: But in moments like that, you realize it's, there's no political divide. There's no gender divide. There's none of this. It's just how do I turn up as a good human in this world and see what is great around us. So, or even just good around us. 

Cooper Chapman: Yeah, absolutely. And it's just shining that light on the couple of positive things each day.

Cherie Canning: Yeah, amazing. From a workplace perspective, and, um, I'm really curious when you said, you know, sometimes you've got mental health and that almost internal eye roll or the, oh yeah, that's the, these are my words now, but you know, that's the hot topic right now, or that's the, you know, on trend thing. What are the lessons?

Cherie Canning: And because I also believe, you know, about pushing through because and the importance for leaders or if they're talking about bringing people like you in to speak, even just running their own gratitude sessions in their teams, whatever it mattered, whatever it is, it all matters. What are your thoughts around?

Cherie Canning: Like, how do we break that barrier of? Um, the resistance, I suppose, or the fears maybe that people have around this topic, or, um, yeah, any experience you've had from a corporate perspective? 

Cooper Chapman: I mean, for me, it's really trying to open my workshops with just the language of going like, hey, just because you don't relate to mental illness, This isn't about that.

Cooper Chapman: This is about mental health and trying to make people recognize that, you know, we have physical health that if we don't take care of it, we're going to end up, you know, out of shape and unhealthy, just like our mental health. If we're not taking actions for it, we're not going to see, you know, things change with it.

Cooper Chapman: So I think for me it's just really trying to like share that this like isn't a mental illness talk and there's so many incredible people who are out there doing talks around mental illness, around, you know, having, um, conversations that are important, having real conversations, having um, you know, the ability to see when people are struggling and seeking help.

Cooper Chapman: Like, that's really important for businesses I think as well to have in. But I think it's important to recognize that, hey. What are we doing to sort of bring people from a 5 to a 7 out of 10? From a 7 to a 9 out of 10. Very often mental health is, um, you know, trying to support that person sitting at a 1 or a 2 out of 10 and bring them out of the dumps, which so, so important.

Cooper Chapman: But I really try and encourage people to realize that, hey, just because people aren't struggling doesn't mean they can't You know, learn some skills so that when they get to a point of struggle, they're far more equipped. Um, see, it is obviously sometimes tough in a corporate space and you see some businesses doing it really well.

Cooper Chapman: Um, and really taking into their culture this idea of well being and holistic well being and how important it is. You know, there's, um, So much great research that shows like how much mental illness and poor mental health is costing the corporate sector, but we're not really investing in the investment on it.

Cooper Chapman: A lot of the data shows that like the investing in, um, holistic well being or just well being education for your staff actually has great like return on investment when it comes to absenteeism and productivity. So I think, um, You know, recognizing that and finding the right people who connect with your staff and the culture at your staff to help just like, it's not about steering the ship, like 180 degrees different.

Cooper Chapman: Like we're trying to like move the ship, like one or two degrees different and one or two degrees over six months, 12 months, five years is a five different place. And hopefully with, you know, those tweaks being a little bit healthier and happier place, you're going to see a workplace that's going to be a little bit different over time.

Cooper Chapman: So it's about just trying to do those incremental shifts, which over times have exponential impact. 

Cherie Canning: Yeah. And I think that's such an important reminder for leaders going, it can feel really big. Um, you know, I really want to fix this or impact this or, um, really make a difference in my workplace and it can feel so overwhelming at times.

Cherie Canning: So I think that reminder of that one degree or one percent. Cent is critical because we don't need to fix anything in inverted commas. We just gotta bring action and awareness, education and action again, um, to really begin that process. And it is a journey for everyone. With your, um, 14 minutes and your three gratitudes and your meditation, can I ask, often a common conversation people will have, is meditation's not for me, or, I find it really hard.

Cherie Canning: Uh, what's your take or advice there? 

Cooper Chapman: I mean, meditation is tough for anyone, right? I mean, you ask anyone, like, what, have you tried to meditate? And you'll probably get most people be like, yeah, I tried it once and my mind just didn't slow down. So it was quite intimidating. So I stopped. And that's very regular.

Cooper Chapman: The answer that I'll get when I ask people that, um, and like for humans, it's kind of argued we have between like six and 60, 000 thoughts a day. It's kind of different. Reports on that from different neuroscientists, but let's let's take it at the low level of 6, 000 thoughts a day on average We usually have around 75 percent of the thoughts are negative and 95 percent of them are usually the same thoughts.

Cooper Chapman: We had yesterday They're repetitive. So if we have 6, 000 thoughts a day four and a half thousand a negative You multiply that by over a year, that's over like 1. 6 million negative thoughts a year. Like, don't you 

Cherie Canning: think 

Cooper Chapman: it would be nice if we could wind that 75 percent down to like 50 percent or 40%? Like, sure, we're always going to have negative thoughts.

Cooper Chapman: They keep us alive. Biologically, we're wired to look for the negative for survival. But I don't think we need 75 percent of a negative. The most important relationship you'll ever have is the one with yourself and the one with the thoughts up in your head. And what I've found through, I mean, interviewing a lot of people, doing a lot of research in this space is, and myself doing this, is that the best way and Pretty challenging way to improve that relationship with yourself is to sit with those thoughts from time to time and you know I've done plenty of meditation courses and my meditation coach is like 15 years into meditating daily And he said like for me it takes like 8 to 10 minutes to kind of get to a point of a bit quiet up There so don't just sit down and think you're bad at meditating because you can't slow your thoughts down like master Meditators take a long time to slow their thoughts down.

Cooper Chapman: It's not about slowing your thoughts down You It's about witnessing your thoughts. It's about building what we call metacognition, you know, being aware of your thoughts. And sometimes questioning them, going wow, that thought is so untrue that I'm telling myself. It's so unhelpful, like why am I telling myself that?

Cooper Chapman: And we can start to sort of distance ourself from those thoughts by sitting with them from time to time. Which, as we all know, is very intimidating, and that's why there's so many great levels. Whether it's, you know, doing a guided meditation, so you don't get stuck in the thinking. You can kind of, you know, Be guided by someone, or if you know, you want to go a little bit deeper, you can find like Vedic meditation and have a mantra that if you do drift off, you bring it back to the mantra drift off, bring it back to the mantra.

Cooper Chapman: There's, um, you know, so many free resources when it comes to meditation and like, there's no good or bad meditators. There's just someone who meditates and somebody who doesn't. And like, you know, I fall off the bandwagon for a few days at a time here or there. And just, it's not about being perfect. It's about being consistent.

Cooper Chapman: How do I start to improve that relationship and think of it like any other relationship. Things take time to improve. Things take time to build on and sitting with those thoughts is, um, yeah, you know, one of the best ways I've found and through a lot of research I've found is best way to improve that relationship with yourself.

Cherie Canning: Yeah. Yeah. That's great advice. Thank you. Um, outside of meditation and gratitude, what are some of your own, um, I guess it doesn't have to be extra to that, but what are some other tools you use and And I ask, um, my husband speaks about this. He meditates every single day. And we practice gratitude as a family every day.

Cherie Canning: And he'll often say when he's having a good day or a medium kind of day, um, there are enough, those tools are enough for him and exercise. But then when he's having a rough time or there's times of uncertainty or just. Difficult. He's like, well, I need the extra tools. You know, when you just got to dig a bit deeper, what are some of those for you when you're under stress, you might be traveling a lot, you know, you've got a lot on, what are some extra tools that you dig into?

Cooper Chapman: Yeah, I mean, I think it's so important to have extra tools for, you know, the days we don't feel like meditating, the days we don't feel like doing other stuff and, you know, I'm actually writing a book about this at the moment called, it's going to be called the 1 percent Good Club, which will be my story about values, but then 14 different, or I think it'll be 10, I'm going to combine a few different healthy habits that I've learned from experts on my podcast that are backed in science that, you know, make us feel good.

Cooper Chapman: So 

Cherie Canning: the 

Cooper Chapman: kind of ones that I try and do each day, I reckon I probably do half of them each day. Um, But then just try and be consistent. Try and like, you know, over a week have a pretty good average of at least half. So the different ones are breathwork, you know, there's so much great science out there now that shows like the impact of breathwork for regulating your emotions, being able to, you know, release a lot.

Cooper Chapman: So I try and do breathwork most days, um, meditations, another one, um, taking my supplements, you know, taking care of my health, whether it's, you know, Um, you know, getting a blood test and understanding what you're deficient in, understanding yourself better. So, you know, knowledge is power when it comes to our health.

Cooper Chapman: So for me, it's like taking my right supplements. I've got a few different like brain capsules, vitamin B12, my greens, um, getting in nature. I think getting in nature is so important. So many of us, you know, don't put our bare skin on the earth, whether it's the grass, the sand, the dirt. Ever. Like, you know, you live in a big city and you don't take your shoes off ever.

Cooper Chapman: Like, I think it's so important to do grounding. I mean, you can go look up grounding and the effects on it yourself. Um, but for me, grounding, getting in nature is so important just to reconnect. Um, stretching, you know, spending a bit of time before bed, whether it's lying on, uh, um, massage ball or lying on a foam roller or just lying and just sort of like rolling your body around in movements that just feel nice to get a little bit of release.

Cooper Chapman: Um, there's a huge one for me. Drinking enough water. Another thing, you know, trying to, I mean, I'm a sucker for this, but I'm trying my best to have a drink bottle with me moments and, um, you know, drinking good water to, you know, doing a bit of research into the importance of having, um, you know, the right filtered water, um, what else is on my list, how home cooking and like, you know, eating healthy foods, trying your best to eat whole foods.

Cooper Chapman: And, um, you know, for me, I love going to the farmer's market and like connecting with the farmers and having. That interaction once a week where, you know, you speak to your butcher. If you eat meat, you go speak to, you know, your local farmers. If you do live in a major city or somewhere where you can go participate in the community of, you know, getting from the farm, come from their farm to the table, to you, to your body, rather than it's gone from a farm through all these processes, packaged, sent to a thing, put on the shelf for a few weeks, put out in the market.

Cooper Chapman: You walk through the shopping center with your headphones in. You have no interaction with anyone. You scan and pay and you leave, like. I'm big on sort of energy and spirituality and I do some incredible podcasts with different people in all these different fields and have just learned like there is, you know, an energetic component to going to the markets, to getting whole foods that haven't been packaged that, you know, go from there into your body.

Cooper Chapman: So for me, trying my best to, you know, eat whole foods and get from the farmers markets and organic and fresh is really important to me. Um, what else do I have on that list? Reading, making sure I, you know, Try and read a few pages of a book each day. I think it's um, really important that we try and grow through life.

Cooper Chapman: Not just go through life. I feel like a lot of us, obviously, we have so much going on in our life. We're so busy. We're so, you know, overworked and stressed that we feel like, oh, we don't have time for this stuff. But I think it's important that we're always trying to learn new things, to expand, to have You know, perspective and our opinions challenged and be open to, you know, going, Oh, that's a great new bit of information.

Cooper Chapman: I'll add that into my life. Um, and then like another one for me is just self care, whether it be making sure my sleep hygiene is good. Um, you know, tracking my sleep with wearables and making sure I'm like staying on top of my sleep, um, staying on top of, you know, just personal hygiene, making sure, you know, my house is clean, making sure I'm in an environment where I feel good.

Cooper Chapman: So. There's like a whole range of things that I don't do every day, but I just try and pick from all of them. And, um, yeah, I actually have like an accountability whiteboard at home where I have like 14 different healthy habits and across seven days, 14 times by seven is 98. So I feel like I get like a score out of a hundred each week, how I do with those habits.

Cooper Chapman: And, you know, I see it on average between like 50 and 70 a week. Um, never am I really more than 70 or 80. I live a busy life. It's hard to maintain. So like I'm far. Perfect. But I have all of these different tools that, you know, I pull out when I feel like I need them and, um, just try and stay consistent.

Cooper Chapman: And I'm always trying to learn new ones too. So hopefully that gives you a really long. 

Cherie Canning: I'm ready for the pre order for your book. So let me know when that's happening, but that's going to be incredible. What a great gift that is. And two, that whiteboard has just given me something because. We have an incredible like goals, um, vision board that we have on our fridge.

Cherie Canning: And part of it is what do we want to do, but how do we need to be as well? So, um, but I'm a huge, huge advocate for variety. Like I'm not really the one who has a really, really strong vision. Um, and when you're saying about that grid, I'm like, that is speaking to me where you go. Okay. Well, what in, in your week, making sure that you've got that dose and yeah, that, that is, um, that is going on the canning fridge for 2025.

Cherie Canning: That is for sure. 

Cooper Chapman: And one more that was on there was exercise that I didn't add and, um, and what else? And actually another good one, um, communication. I think that's really important that we have like connection and communication each day in our life. That, you know, if you are in a hard. You make a phone call to a friend, a family member have a chat for me.

Cooper Chapman: It's more so about my partner and I, um, have been doing distance for the last four months. So just trying to actually spend a little bit of time connecting each day. Um, and when I say connection, it's not just like, oh, this is what I did today. It's like, this is how I'm feeling today. This is what I'm going through just.

Cooper Chapman: Um, yeah, there's like, yeah, as I said, a big smorgasbord of different things, and I'm going to be writing a book about the science behind all of those, my experience with all of those, but then also some little techniques and strategies, how to implement them into your day. 

Cherie Canning: Oh, that sounds incredible.

Cherie Canning: Absolutely incredible. I am. I am thinking about an experience in 2017. Um, we, we just had our daughter at the end of 2016 and she was born three months early, so she was in hospital for quite a long time. And when she came out, um, the pressure that my husband and I think our relationship was under then on reflection was in a really, Not great place at all.

Cherie Canning: And one thing we did when you think about the connection and the gratitude and communication that I, I swear it saved our marriage. I really believe this and it sounds so simple, but for people not, they don't need to be in that position, but just in a place where, um, When maybe yeah, ships in the night or it's very, um, tick box kind of communication in life is getting busy and we're not putting the energy in, but we would send a text message to each other every day.

Cherie Canning: And there was the prayer hands of what am I grateful for? And the love heart of what I love about you. And it had to be different every day and every day we would send it. So to receive that was so meaningful, but also to think about. Think about it. And honestly, there were some days there that I'm like, nothing, there's nothing, but we weren't in the best place.

Cherie Canning: But of course you must find that thing. Right. And that was just incredibly powerful. And anytime, um, where Andy and I, these days find that we're, we're just So there's a lot happening. I don't like to use the word busy, but there's, there's a lot on the calendar and there's a lot happening. And maybe we're running at two different paces in two different directions at times.

Cherie Canning: That's something we'll go, hang on. We just got to check in with our love and grateful texts to one another again. And this just so simple, but there it's. It's the reminder for us all not to overlook simplicity, that it's not impactful because it has so much power. 

Cooper Chapman: Well, it's not overlooking the action.

Cooper Chapman: Like after today's chat, we all have the awareness that yeah, gratitude is a really powerful thing. We have the awareness that mindfulness and meditation is a powerful thing, but are we actually doing it? Are we actually taking the action? You don't get the benefits from it unless you take the action.

Cooper Chapman: It's all well and good to know the science of it. But you need to take the action to get the benefits and not enough of us. I don't think are taking those actions to actually get the benefits of these things. And I think that's, yeah, moving from awareness to action. 

Cherie Canning: Yeah, absolutely. And to the point that anyone listening right now, press pause, send a text to someone you're grateful for, do the action now, right when we're in the moment.

Cherie Canning: That's amazing. Cooper, do you have, um, I'd love to just ask to kind of round out our conversation today. Um, just if you've got one, if you could have one wish granted in the corporate world, um, around mental health and, and action, what would it be? What a piece of advice or what thing would you love to see?

Cooper Chapman: Ooh, I mean, I want to say everyone books my workshop, 

Cherie Canning: but 

Cooper Chapman: it's just such a complex world out there. There's so many different industries. I just think if people led with empathy rather than judgment would be in a far different place. When, you know, you see somebody doing something that you don't agree with, or you see somebody make a mistake, or you see somebody, you know, do something that.

Cooper Chapman: Yeah, it's in a line with your values or with your opinions instead of leading with judgment, try and lead with empathy. I wonder why they're doing that. I wonder what they have gone through for them to act this way. I wonder, you know, what they're struggling with or, you know, I wonder, you know, if we lived every day in that person's shoes, we would have acted the exact same way.

Cooper Chapman: So just trying to have empathy that, you know, people are always trying their best and, um, yeah, trying to lead with empathy rather than judgment. I think super important. 

Cherie Canning: Yeah. I absolutely love that. And it makes me think about a favorite quote of mine that I feel like you might have on some merch now.

Cherie Canning: Well, I will often say, get curious before you get furious, but I think, have you got the hat on? Um, get curious, not furious. I love it. Cause I'm saying before you get furious, so maybe we avoid the furious altogether. Yeah. Get curious, not furious. So that empathy and just curious for what's going on for this person.

Cherie Canning: Yeah. What a powerful perspective. 

Cooper Chapman: Absolutely. It's something that, you know, I'm working on all the stuff I talk about and teach is like just all the stuff that I'm working on. So it's, um, you know, I'm far from perfect and I'm just on this journey with everyone, part of my community and everyone, part of, You know, the work that I do.

Cooper Chapman: So hopefully we can go on the journey together that's, um, you know, as I said, one or two degrees different can send us in a far different place in the future. 

Cherie Canning: That's amazing. Well, we'll share the links so people can join your club and your, um, social media handles. And also if they want to go and get some of that merch, we'll link everything in.

Cherie Canning: And I really want to thank you so much, not just for your time today. But just your perspective, and I just love your energy, your genuine, authentic way of talking about such important topics. And I love it. I think there's, um, for every business, for every person, there's different voices that are going to speak to them.

Cherie Canning: And I just think you're so relatable, you're so real, uh, watching you on a stage, listening to you here. Um, yeah, it's a real deal and I, I just, I'm really grateful for your time. This will be our last episode actually for the year. And I just think what a perfect, what a perfect way to round this out and to send people off into the silly season.

Cherie Canning: And just remember, get curious, not furious, stay empathetic, be grateful. Poopa, I'm so grateful for your time. 

Cooper Chapman: Nah, thank you so much. And I'll give everyone one last one if this is coming out right before Christmas. 

Cherie Canning: Yeah, it will be. 

Cooper Chapman: Best thing you can do for someone as a Christmas present, or as well as a Christmas present, I know times are tough right now if you feel, oh, can't afford to get that amazing thing, spend five minutes, write them a little card about how much you're grateful for them and the things that you're grateful for about them.

Cooper Chapman: That'll mean more to them than going to, you know, I don't have the time to go to the shop and buy the present. Spend five minutes and write them a card. That'll mean more to them than buying them a, you know, 50 present that I don't really need. Write them a heartfelt card that you're grateful for them.

Cooper Chapman: It'll make you feel great and it'll make them feel great. There's um, the perfect present for Christmas. 

Cherie Canning: Yeah. What a win. That is awesome. That's a beautiful way to finish. Thank you so, so much. Um, and Merry Christmas to you and your family or whatever you celebrate. 

Cooper Chapman: No, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Cherie Canning: Thank you. Thank you. Oh, that is awesome.