Leanne Hughes | Speaker, Author, Facilitator

In this episode of the Lead with Courage podcast, Cherie welcomes Leanne Hughes, a dynamic facilitator, speaker, and podcast host known for pushing boundaries in leadership and learning. Leanne shares her journey from corporate life to entrepreneurship, highlighting the pivotal moments that shaped her career—including an unexpected challenge in a leadership workshop that ultimately led her to launch the First Time Facilitator podcast.

Cherie and Leanne dive into themes of personal branding, innovation in facilitation, and the courage required to stand out and take risks. Leanne reflects on the importance of embracing failure, stepping off the "Hesitation Station," and the power of saying "yes" to opportunities, even when they feel daunting—like cold-messaging cricket legend Justin Langer, which led to an unforgettable moment.

The conversation also explores the future of leadership development in the age of AI, the significance of personal energy management, and the value of building meaningful connections. As a special moment, Leanne turns the tables on Cherie, encouraging her to share her aspirations for writing a Lead with Courage book.

With humour, wisdom, and a wealth of insights, this episode is an inspiring reminder that leading with courage means trusting yourself, embracing bold decisions, and always staying curious.

https://www.leannehughes.com/

https://podcast.leannehughes.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/leannehughes/

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Until the next episode, we hope you live and Lead with Courage!
Cherie x
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Luminate Leadership is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14.

Transcript

 [00:00:00] Leanne Hughes, welcome to the Lead with Courage podcast. I am so thrilled you're here. Thank you for joining us. 

I am so thrilled to be here today. By the way, I think you were born with a voice for podcasting. Oh. You've got an amazing voice. 

That is very kind. Very kind.

Thank you. I don't know if my husband agrees. I think he. Well, maybe for the podcast, but I'm sure that my voice keeps him awake at night. It's 

what we do, we get paid to speak. So that's why we've chosen these career fields. 

Yes. Or has it chosen us? Yes. Thank you. Thank you. It is so great to have you here.

We're going to dive into your story. We're going to look at the work that you do. We're going to talk about personal branding today. We're going to talk about being outside of the box and, and everything about you that I just find so fascinating and so much to soak up. And before we do that, I would love to ask you the first question we always ask our guests, which is what does lead with courage mean to you?

Yeah, I love that part to you because I think and I've [00:01:00] listened to many of your shows, and I love all the different definitions that have surfaced. I think for me, Wake was so conditioned to belong. Uh, going back to evolutionary times, it's all about keeping safe and belonging. And I think Leading with courage is actually having the courage to go against that all that evolutionary stuff That's been told to be the same and as everyone else and you know how we met is through The facilitation work and things like that and I know sure you run sessions with groups I'm teaching them my train the trainer and often we see in organizations many people just We'll put on a PowerPoint and train people that way.

And I was like, why are they doing that? And it's because that's the standard that's been set. And so when I worked in a global organisation, trying to do things differently in workshops, sure there's ideas that help you do that, but you've got to have courage to try things that are different. And step outside what everyone else is doing.

And that for me is what leading with courage is all about. It's like going against the grain and backing, backing yourself. 

Yes, that is beautiful. And you know, when I told the [00:02:00] team that we had you on the show, they were so excited and they're like, she's the epitome of this. Because for me, when I, when I think of you and the work you do and working with you, it is outside of the box.

It's pushing boundaries, it's creating new boundaries. And I think that's what almost I see you're famous for, which is really fantastic. 

Thank you. Uh, it's interesting when people say that about me, because please don't think that when I do that, it's just an effortless thing, like there's a lot of nerves, there's a lot of journaling about it and often just having to, like that self talk, like just, just give it a go.

And the good thing about 2025 is that we're living in a digital age where you can move things very quickly. So if you do fail, something doesn't work, maybe you lose a bit of face. So that's, that's pretty much it. You've learnt a lesson, you can try and course correct. 

Yeah, that's the worst case scenario in a way.

Yeah, yeah, so wonderful. So, Leanne, can you, can you step us back on a little bit about you, who you are, what's led you to this point? That's a big question. Uh, you know, maybe I'll give you a time slot for that. No, [00:03:00] but a little bit about who is Leanne. 

Yeah, great. Well, uh, I've, I mean, I've come from the corporate world.

I kind of did every, I could talk about doing things differently, but I had a pretty standard life, pretty conventional university. Started at a global consulting company kind of after a year just hated it because for that reason I guess you spoke about before They hired really talented people and then they processed the heck out of them So you couldn't really bring an individual ideas just had to follow a process Which you think now I mean they could basically replace all their stuff with AI if that's the way it is And then I had a quarter life crisis ended up joining a company which really I guess Fired up that take it outside the box wicked camper vans and you might have heard about that experience and the boss that kind of Changed my whole idea around being fearless lived in remote Western Australia for a while come back to Brisbane worked in global mining and At the time the commodities price was low So my boss just sent me around the world to run workshops to save money for the company And I didn't had no idea how to do it.

So After [00:04:00] an awful incident in Canada during a workshop, I came back, ran, rang up every facilitator friend and said, What would you have done? And then that became this sort of organic podcast called First Time Facilitator. 

What was the event?

Yeah, it was the first day of a leadership program. I was the only female in the room, about 30 male supervisors in this town called Fort McMurray, which No one goes to Canada, goes to Fort McMurray. Look, it's not a bad place, but I was jet lagged. I'd never run the program before, and we were doing an exercise relating to pre starts after lunch.

So actually getting everyone up to share something, like to, so speak in public, which is a great fear of many people. And then this guy, Rob, just refused to participate. And not only that, like, he crossed his arms and he said it in this, it was like, I'm not doing it. And so I went to the next guy, I said, Oh, do you want to come up?

And he's like, I'm not doing it either. And so I was like, right, what do I do now? And yeah, luckily at the start of that day, we'd done some work on the values of the organisation. So I kind of brought it back to that. And I was praying when I went to, after I did that bit of [00:05:00] an intervention, you know, slow motion went to the, well you, uh, are you interested in, in participating?

And he came up and, Got it back. But after that session, I got home to the hotel. I was like, I don't even want to go back. I don't want to do this. I hate facilitation. Why am I even here? Yeah, I hated it. But now, isn't it funny? Like the obstacle is the way, like Brian Holiday. This is my career. 

Yeah, I know I'm sitting here going, I'm so glad that happened to you because now we get you the way you are, right?

Because with, with all the love and kindness when I've said that, but without that hurdle, you don't go searching for all those. And, and I, as I cut you off so rudely, but the first time facilitated podcast, like that's incredible, incredible. And what a community. And we've spoken about this with having a niche and.

There are so many people out there who facilitate, whether they've fallen into facilitation, whether they've sorted out, but who need those skills and those tools, and it's actually the stories, because it's not in [00:06:00] the book stuff, right? It's what would you do if? 

Yeah, you're absolutely right. And just having that validation.

And, and, and ideas of like what can I do differently in this session, how do I bring engagement, what did I do wrong? 

I 

mean it was really around, a lot of the best business ideas around just scratching your own itch, of something that's super painful. And it just hit both of those things. But what was interesting, like after starting that podcast, I was still working for this global mining company.

But my, I was kind of getting overlooked for a few things within that global business, didn't have a brand at all. What was interesting starting an external podcast is that it just supercharged my brand internally and then I got given every opportunity. So yeah, especially podcasts around something like I'm not even good at, like I'm just naturally curious around this.

But through the value of podcasting, it just positions you as an expert, even though you're not. 

And now if we fast forward, when, when was that? How long ago? 

Uh, 

2017. 2017. Yeah. And here we are in 2025. And right now your personal goal is to do a daily dose of Leanne and your own daily [00:07:00] podcast for the whole year.

That's right. 

Isn't that a huge, like, 360? Yeah, 

it's a bit stupid, like, I was, yeah, exactly, like a weekly show, now I'm doing a daily podcast and I just had, I guess, fallen out of love with, I don't know if it was podcasting or the topic, but I've been doing it for so many years, as you mentioned, and I was at a workshop last year as a guest sorry, it was just someone in the group, like a participant, and they said, look, what do you need to do dramatically different to get different results?

And I was like, what is dramatic for me? Uh, and the second I thought of The Daily Podcast, like, I completely dismissed it, but that's exactly the reason why I did it. Because it actually was pretty daunting. And I call myself, like, I joke around being a thought breeder. It's like, if I really am, surely I've got 365 ideas to share.

Yes, I 

love that and when you're saying about journaling and talking for a living, facilitating conversations for a living, there is no shortage of concepts and things to talk on. No 

way, like even you think like Cherie, like the last workshop you [00:08:00] ran, I'm sure you had like at least five really great questions from your group.

That's five episodes. Yes. Yeah, when you think about it. 

Yeah, absolutely. And even your own takeaways from the learnings of interacting with that group. Yeah, 100%. Brilliant. So great. So great. I was listening to an episode or two yesterday. And yeah, even there was an episode with Liz who works at Rio Tinto and talking about the future of L& D and AI and just AI full stop.

And I know that it's not necessarily the L& D might not be every listener's world, but when it comes to AI and disrupting yourself or going outside of the box, yeah, What can you share around AI, because I know that you are not someone afraid of technology, trying new things, like I just remember seeing you on socials with your camera that floats in front of you and just follows you around, like you're always, to me, someone I see the next step ahead.

So tell me about AI, tell me about what you're seeing, what you're feeling, what you're excited about. 

I think we're so lucky. I mean, to be [00:09:00] born in, like, to have this opportunity with AI is absolutely incredible. I did a, uh, Talk the Walk live stream with Alan Weiss today about AI and disruption. I guess one of the key themes there was was a kind of reframing a question.

A lot of us are like, okay, there's, there's kind of like a defensive question. Like how, how will I use AI? How will I not be obsolete? Like, how will AI not disrupt my business? That's like very defensive. But more of an attacking strategy is how can I use it to create more value for my clients? How can I use it to supercharge what I already do?

And so I'm trying to look for opportunities that way. 

Mm 

hmm, but also probably links to I mean, do you like Madonna? Like she's constantly reinventing herself and like in that conversation with Liz Heath what I said, will workshops be obsolete? And I think if you define a workshop as around content exchange and just skill building, perhaps, perhaps it's obsolete.

But if you see it as an opportunity to get people together and solve something, work on something that's really contextual to the business, and build up those connections, you know, from remote teams, like there's still this massive opportunity in [00:10:00] using that. And look, I couldn't do a daily podcast without the AI helping me.

Like just, I, we talked about the workload in doing podcasts and when I first started I had, contractors, editing audio, doing show notes. It's all basically done within five minutes. 

Yes. Thanks to AI. Yeah. Yeah. Incredible tools we can 

have. 

Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing, isn't it? I really love the way you've just said that around framing it.

Is it a defensive or is it, you know, going on that proactive approach of how is it going to, how is it going to allow us to reshape our lives? And it's, I listened to an episode of Diary of a CEO the other day. They were talking about this 7 4 11 concept and we talked, they talked about AI and around how the way we are taught and maybe it's from a learning, a leadership.

We've been brought up through our schools and education in the industrial system and now we're in the digital And you guys might have referenced that as well and then so how we shift over the way that we communicate the way that we lead the way that [00:11:00] we Take in information like how different that is, but we're wired from this industrial way 

Yeah, I think it's always around.

I think we're seeing that like this spoke about it as well What you sort of define as typical leadership development training is like if you go off site and do something But it's like and even like having meetings the role of meetings. Like what's the point of that? 

Mmm, 

if there's different ways of conveying information that are faster, why are we still slipping back into these old ways of working?

So there's really you've really always got a question like the purpose behind something And one of my favorite quotes from Alan Weiss is like stop walking around the block to get next door really think about what do we want to achieve here and kind of question like it has to be this way like if it's eight steps why does it have to be eight steps what would one step look like i'm always asking that because like my goal is always like More free time in the calendar but also more free time but adding more value like that's I love that as a guiding question for my business Yeah, 

so beautiful.

So tell us [00:12:00] around Guiding you in your business. I've noticed you've done a rebrand of your website and Personal branding is always something that you know is The essence of everything that you do and also help other leaders and businesses do as well So tell us around personal branding. Why is it so important in such a feature in life for you?

I think it's because, uh, well probably it solves a very helpful problem for me that I don't have to pick what is my business about. Okay, because when I first started, I'm like, what's my business going to be? Is it going to be? Facilitation, first time facilitator. The beauty of having a personal brand like LeanneHughes.

com is that I can pivot. I can be like Madonna and just, haha, Leanne. com. But just like, I can then see You've got 

the headset on and everything right now. Yeah, it's perfect. 

Where's your cone bra? 

Hahaha. 

We've evolved from that. Sorry. Yes. Yeah, 

we can like, it gives me the permission to pivot to wherever I want to go.

But I think it's always about reputation. And when I work in, I was working on the other [00:13:00] side, like in the OD world. and I was remembering conversations. Whenever we'd want to hire someone, we'd always go like, let's get this person, not their, their business name. And so for me mm-hmm. Like, and I know we've got different objectives through, like, my goal is just to be like, I, I just wanna keep it lean and spacious.

I, and I know like I'd love to scale and get a team and everything else, but I think my, the best I know, like in terms of self-awareness, I know that. For me, it's just I probably wouldn't want to work, well, I would feel any, sorry for anyone that would have to work with me to be honest, because I just changed my mind so many times, but I can deal with that because I'm my own operator.

Yes. Yes. 

Yeah. So in terms of personal brand, I think it gives you permission then to talk about topics that relate to you in the world of AI. No one can replicate your uniqueness. So even in this daily podcast, there's been episodes about why I love Luke Coombs. Like, we're linking that to some business lessons, but it's bringing that humanity in.

And I think when Steve Bartlett, Driver CEO, was in Brisbane, like, he played to the audience a snippet of a podcast episode that was completely AI generated [00:14:00] around the English Premier League, and it sounded incredible. And I was like, this is a moment where Oh my goodness, what can I do to not conquer that, but still remain relevant.

It's like I can only go in on being myself. That's the only thing I can go in on. So that's why personal branding is really important to me. And the rebrand was about, I looked at my website and I'm like, and I could not disgust, but it was just so average. And I wanted just a different image around that and some elevation.

Yes. After five years. 

So great. How have you found it putting it out to the world? 

Uh, it's, it's, it's an out there. Because I, Jason who I worked with, he's like, how out there do you want to go? And I'm like, look, I don't rebrand very often. So let's go all the way. Because I think I'd be, back to my original question around leading with courage, I'd actually regret it if I only went.

Kind of 50 percent let's do a 50 percent bold free brand. It's it's people. I think it conveys It can think it conveys that I've over the five years. I've kind of established like the expertise [00:15:00] and It's really colorful. I love it. It's dynamic. I love sharing with clients. So yeah, I'm thrilled with it 

Yeah, I love it.

And I really enjoy going on there watching the videos the the colors the movement is it's really you and one thing that I I really noticed, and I take on as something to reflect on for everyone, regardless of leadership or what role, what business they may or may not be in, but it's just the courage, literally, to not necessarily be everyone's cup of tea which is funny, you're my cup of tea, but when other people may look at it, they might go, oh.

Not boring enough? No, but not polished. Polished is probably the wrong word. How would you describe it? Where am I trying to go here? It's not, 

I mean, I say, it's definitely not conventional. Not conventional. It's 

not conventional. It is polished, because very professional, but not in a a dull way, not in a stark way.

Yeah, it's just not boring. 

It's poppy. It's, it's a bit, it is. It's like sort of [00:16:00] collage, like there's random elements put together. It's a bit. It is a bit random, it's a bit loose, but that is, is who I am. It's funny, I'm doing this red carpet campout and I posted the sales copy on this.

I would say a conservative consultant's forum. And the first response I got about that was, uh, the lady was absolutely repulsed by it. She's like, I would never go to this, it looks like group therapy. And for maybe a couple of hours I was like, pretty down about it. And then I thought, no, I've done exactly the right thing.

I have, like, would I, you know, she's not the right person for this. And I think to stand for something you actually sometimes have to repel, well, most of the time have to repel someone to get really clear on who it is. Yes. 

Yes. How did you get to that point? What work, what steps did you go through to get to that point?

So the rebrand? 

Well, actually the comfort in repelling. 

Yeah. 

You know, because if you're working for yourself and you're in your business and any, there could be that default of like, well, any money's good money. Yeah. Which is not necessarily true. But how do you get to that [00:17:00] point where you go, actually I'm okay.

Oh, I love that. To miss 

out on potentially that person signing up, because if I'd edited that copy to be more digestible for the masses, it might have appealed to people, but you know that it's not going to drive the right person. 

Yeah, well, like I said, I mean, it was a couple of hours, I actually felt pretty, like, it wasn't like I was actively down about it, but I felt this weight.

So, again, just saying, sharing that because it's not like, oh, I'm going to, I'm so flippant, that doesn't bother me. Like, it still bothers me. Still does. Yeah. Don't let it stop me. I guess that experience at Wicked Camp is realizing, I mean, we did some crazy, crazy stuff in that company, you know, naked specials, the van slogans were terrible, like the lawsuits we got, yet nothing actually, I mean, when I was there, it didn't really impact the business at all.

In fact, it actually, we tripled revenue as a result of standing out that way. Going back to personal brand though, everyone says, oh, it's business, it's not personal. When it is your personal brand, yeah, it is kind of personal. Yeah. So. 

[00:18:00] Deeply personal. 

Absolutely. Absolutely. And so I actually I think it was that same week when this lady rejected me, my friend Andy Storch, I think you might know him.

Yes. I sent him a WhatsApp message and it said, ah, it's international day of rejection, Billyann. Like, cause I think I've lost two, I'd put out two proposals that day. I'd won one, so I had three responses in one day, and then that lady.

But I was like, I'd only thought of the negative responses. So, I don't know, for me, like, life is an experiment. We're only here once. Like, who actually cares? No, no one cares, really. Like, she'll move on. It didn't impact her writing that. Why let it impact me? Yes. 

Yes. And also what I've heard out of that is in knowing when you are in that moment, the community or the people that you need to reach out to that are going to bring you back up or laugh with you or laugh at you or whatever is required in that moment.

And you know, we need different things, but having those people around you that you know who to reach out to. 

Yeah. And I think when I shared that again, Steph Clark is a good friend of mine. Like when I was reading it to her. [00:19:00] I was like, oh, this is actually like a roast and when I saw it as a roast, it was amazing.

Yeah, it's kind of great, isn't it? But it does, it really, it takes a lot of courage to get there. How have you worked on your own personal values and knowing who you are? What's that looked like over the years? 

Yeah, it's definitely evolved. I think I've always had that, like, but the stuff that's even ingrained, like when I was eight years old, I remember going to a friend's birthday party.

And my parents dropped me off and they picked me up a few hours later and it was, I remember being in the car going, this is the most boring party I've ever been to, like, there were no activities. We just sat around the barbecue. Whereas when I had a bar, like when I ran my parties, like my dad was an engineer and we had agendas.

We got like the coolest, you know, we just made a big, so that's, that's kind of been ingrained with me. Like making the most time that we have together. That's a core value. That's driven everything that I do. Just positive, like you're a really positive person, Cherie, and my friend Micah asked me about this on her show.

There was a [00:20:00] point in time where I think I was six years old where I realised not everyone smiles as much. Like, it was actually, I had to wake up, like I thought smiling was a default. I honestly thought that was a default. And that's, again, lived with me. But in terms of values I think it's an evolution of like, sometimes it's like that, uh, the statue of David.

It's kind of like just carving away at what's there and just actually being, and refining it. And a lot of the time, unfortunately, you learn that through, through failure. Yes, it's kind of just developing, uh, kind of learning to love failure. And that's what breeds innovation. And that's where companies.

because people are scared to fail. 

Yes, and I hear you talk about this hesitation station. Can you, can you tell us about this? Cause I think that's when people are standing still, right? 

Everyone there is like, has aspirations. They've got ideas and you would with your clients as well, our friends peers. We all have people that share things and then you see them at your lane.

You're like, how's that going for you? And it's like, it hasn't made it off the hesitation station. So that place is like, I just [00:21:00] described it as like a metaphorical train station. and it's like dark, it's gray. There's no timetable up there there's no vending machine. When you, when you're there, the longer you stay there, you set up shop.

And so you kind of, that's the, that's the problem with hesitating, is that you get comfortable in just this, this crap that you're in. And so when I describe it that way, it's a sort of metaphorical grey waiting room. People get it. 

Yes. 

And then you're like, okay, cool, what are the strategies to get off the damn train?

One is just like, Next train. I, I'm heading off on it. Yeah, just, I'm going to try and do one small thing in the direction of what I wanna achieve. I'm gonna reach out to one person, I'm gonna Yeah, it's find that way. 

Oh, I love that. I love it a lot. And I imagine that when, if you're not finding the right people, like going back to your calling Andy or your other friends to, in those moments, they're almost like misery loves company.

So if you've got other people you're hanging out with that just love on being on Hesitation Station. I saw a post today from Serena Williams and it said, I just re shared it today, [00:22:00] and it was if someone tells me I can't. Like when they're saying, Oh, look, Leanne, you can't do a daily podcast.

Essentially what they're saying is, I can't, but they'll tell you, you can't, you know, you can't do this, but it's essentially them saying they can't do it. Oh, Leanne, you won't be doing a daily podcast. Just too hard. It's too much commitment. And I just thought, yes. How true is that? So how aware and awake are we to whose opinions we're actually letting in to our psyche and in our mindset?

Yeah, I honestly think people just tell me their ideas when they're half baked because I know I'm going to say, just do it. Like, if someone's coming to me, and I don't know if you find it in your coaching work, like 80 percent of the time it's just validating and just going, you should do that. Because like, they've thought about it.

I've got the courage to even say it. It's like, sure. And what's the risk? Like, if you play at the risk and you actually go there, like, what is the downside? 

Yes. I literally had this conversation with Hayley, who's another guest on the podcast, and she [00:23:00] said her dad, she went to her dad and said, you know, I'm thinking about doing this.

And he's like, right, what's the worst thing that can happen? And not as a throwaway line, let's literally talk about it. Okay, well, if that happened. Then what would you do? And if that then happened, then what will you do? And when she played those two scenarios She was like, I'm ready to do it. Like that. So it's like it's actually possible.

It's possible when you're real within what maybe that Yeah, Plan B could look like, or what is worst case, it's actually not that bad. It's actually not that bad. 

Man, sometimes the upside is like significant. I think, I, we, I don't know, yeah, we must have spoken about, like, when I reached out to Justin Langer.

Yes, yes, tell us about this story, 

this is a great story. 

It's not even that, my friend that was there was like, okay, well, I love it, because it's so fun, so, I mean, when you leave corporate, you don't get any of the corporate perks, like corporate boxes, and I was like, damn it, I'm gonna, Get my own corporate box at the cricket and so I organized that and I woke up on the Saturday morning of the test and I know [00:24:00] JL Justin Langer was was commentating and I and for some Reason we were connected on LinkedIn.

I don't know how that happened. I don't think he connects with anyone 

Yeah, well, I think i'm connected with him, too 

There we go direct yeah, we're gonna direct yeah, I mean like I said 2025 what a great time to be alive So I just send him a message and say, Hey, it was my dream to get this corporate box.

I've got my own business now. You're my favorite cricketer. I'm left handed, blah, blah, blah. Like, if you, if you just pop by, if you ever get a chance. And he did. And he popped over and I mean, gosh, he spent a decent amount of time there. Like we were talking about 20, 25 minutes. Everyone's like, how does this person know JL?

But when I did that, I guess, uh, like the downside, let's play that out. He reads it and he doesn't respond. Okay. Upside. Upside. We have that moment, and it was like just a highlight and it just reinforces like, just go out there and, and ask and yes, go for it. Yeah. 

Yes. So good. So fun. It's so good. So, MBS, the coaching Habit, the author [00:25:00] podcaster, co legend, how did you meet him 

Through podcasting.

What, what you are doing, Sheri, same thing, but it was I guess a different time in 2019 and he was speaking in Brisbane. I had run a workshop in Singapore, I wasn't able to make that event. I said, look, I'm flying back overnight, can I please interview the next day? And I think he liked the name of the podcast, First Time Facilitator, because he kept saying that when we met.

And so we met in person, we just did the one hour interview, that was that. And then over time, like I just, you know, stay connected every now and then. And I think. I think there was one time I was listening to a show where they actually referenced the coaching habit and were talking about how great it was.

And I took a video snippet of that and just emailed it to him. Little things like that to stay in touch. Like, just adding a bit of value. And we stay connected. He got me on to do some commentary around the advice trap. And then, yeah, he just reached out to me and said, I'm going to be in Brisbane. Do you want to run an event together?

You know, you screenshot those emails and you're like, you squeal. 

Is this really happening? I honestly 

thought I was going to die before that day. [00:26:00] Whenever something great is in the, you know, in the calendar, I'm like, I'm not going to make it there. It's so good. I was like, I don't, I'm sure there's a German word for that.

Oh, yeah, yeah. It's so good. It's like, it's not going to happen. Oh, I'm sure there's a German word. 

It. I love it. I love it. Oh my gosh. My friend Gemma, who speaks fluent German, come back to us on that. Yeah. Wow. Wow. And that event was, I loved that event. Oh, thank you. I absolutely loved that event. The rooftop Brisbane.

Again, and if we go back to a little bit earlier in the conversation of with you and Liz talking about the future of facilitation and, workshops or gatherings that involve that kind of, you know, facilitators at the front of the work that we do. That was such a thought provoking eye opening.

I remember sitting, who I was sitting with, sharing what I shared. I wrote my goals down. They still terrify me. They're on my fridge. It still terrifies me, but I put it out there. And isn't the [00:27:00] universe so funny that my goals were linked to speaking. And do you remember where I, I don't know, I'm not, I'm asking you to remember something that is totally not.

Okay. In your thought process. But do you, do you recall where I was seated? Yes. I was sitting at the front. I 

remember. Yeah. 

Do you remember who I was sitting next to? 

Sally. 

Yeah. Sally Prosser, voice coach, speaking coach. And there I am sitting next to her saying, Hi, my goals. And you just think, wow, it's the universe, like the universe delivers.

And it was an incredible, incredible event. Bravo to you both. It really was fantastic. I met Andy from Banana Life there. You know, just all these things that came out of the, yeah, all these things that came out of that. 

Because we don't know. You don't know when you run out. You create this container for conversations and great.

The people were superb. Like, and I was like, am I biased because I'm enjoying this so much? So I loved hearing that. Yeah, it really was 

superb. It was an incredible event. And to me, it goes back to I love AI and I love the opportunities that [00:28:00] technology and everything is bringing into our world and Nothing in my mind.

Nothing will replace well facilitated thought out meaningful gatherings Like that's human and that will never how we do it and how we advertise it and you know Share it back and all these will change but actually that human connection I feel like, who knows, we'll, we'll listen back to this recording in 30 years time and go, oh that silly lady thought that.

No, I think you're a bang on. But, but I don't think it's going to change. Yeah. Because human to human, yeah. 

Oh, even like, I was in Melbourne running a conference last week and lots of, like, there were so many technical topics that could be covered. But it was really, you know, we actually really scaled it right back and was like, one or two questions over 90 minutes.

These are the guiding questions. Like, and you know, gave them a framework and ways to look at it. But the engagement on that. Yeah. And so. Yeah, I mean, and Michael talks about like, lazy coaching, lazy facilitation. It's almost like you're just creating some scaffolding for people to really connect in.

Yeah, create the [00:29:00] container, give them something meaningful to chew on together and connect over. Yeah, yes, so powerful, so powerful. What else can we talk about? 

Ooh, do you want to talk about book writing? 

I would love to talk about book writing. If you look over to the other side of this room, your book is on our bookshelf and I did reference a second ago, I said, oh, it's not like, you know, putting it in the book of how to run the workshop.

Like actually, it's exactly what the book is and it is a brilliant book. So the two hour blue workshop blueprint, have I got that in the right order? Yeah. Two hour 

The Trial Workshop Blueprint. Yeah. You got it. Yeah. I, I was wanting to talk about it because I want to know about your aspirations for writing a book.

Oh 

yes, that's interesting. Thanks Leanne. Uh, I have aspirations to write a book. Tell me about you writing your book. I'm, I'm happy to talk about my aspirations too. for asking. Yeah, 

I'd love to. I think you've got so much to share. So I'm really looking forward [00:30:00] to your book when but I'm happy to share like just about maybe a bit about the process, what I learned.

Because I know when we have spoken about this, how many topics you could have jumped into and this is hesitation station, right? 

Even on my next book, I'm hesitating massively. I mean, I had a subsector at called Leanne's next book. com. I'm doing daily pod. Like these are all, honestly, these are all procrastination tools for not actually hitting this book title.

And I'm like, I'm using to discover my next topic. I'm just not making a decision. But I think when I made the decision on writing the last book, it was really around back to what problem am I solving? And I've got this, uh, flip chart community reference before there's 2, 800 facilitators on there. So I just dug for gold in that.

And what I was noticing. That is an incredible 

community. Yeah. Genuinely. I have a workshop next week where I, I need something a bit different and I'm like, you know, I'm going to jump in there and find the answer because it will be in there. 

Yeah. I mean, it was like years of just. It's almost like a wiki for workshops.

Yeah, maybe that should be the title of it. But and all these people are like, I want to run a two hour [00:31:00] workshop on topic X, Y, Z. And I was like, a two hour workshop is like the underpinning theme. And again, like no one really teaches you, people, experts get called in to run lunch and learns, and to run these kind of, they're the expert, but they don't know how to run a workshop.

And so I thought, yeah, given my body of work. I really wanted just to be an author and so I was speaking at Andy's conference in California and said, I'm not going to this conference without a book. And so that was 52 days . So I wrote it in 52 days. I had it printed in LA and shipped to the conference 

52 days.

Version 

one. Okay. Version one at the book. And that was, uh, probably a big lesson is getting it validated. So my goal was. put the book out with the cover that I've, that Jade had created and so there were four different books there. I was basically watching, did anyone pick up my book? And people were grabbing my book.

So I was like, great, validated that. And I was asking for early feedback as well. Like please destroy this book, give me feedback. And I had a community about 30 people in there that actually gave me feedback on it. I made it punchier. I took things out, added things in. I built it with the community. So [00:32:00] I was kind of, when it went to launch, That community helped me market it too.

Oh brilliant, and that 52 days, how did you go about pulling everything together? How did you know how to structure it? 

I didn't. Did you get advice? I didn't know how to structure it at all. Yeah, so I was basically just taking myself to a cafe and I was handwriting the book. Because When I was on a computer, I was getting distracted.

Somehow I'd wound up on YouTube. In 30 seconds. I don't know how that happened. Can relate. 

Can relate. 

And I remember sending the first sort of draft to my dad. And he's like, what is this? Like, who is this for? What is this about? Like, it was just rubbish. Then Jade Miller, who's a friend of mine, she did all the illustrations.

She helped me put it into a framework that was logical. And so then I gathered all the resources from all the client workshops and, you know, some of the stuff I'd done on the podcast and then I kind of retrofitted it into that framework. 

And I remember you saying, and this is actually in my mind at the moment, you know, I could have done this, I could have done that as far as the topics that you could speak to, uh, but [00:33:00] this was something you knew really well, and you felt confident in, and it may not be the topic you want to speak on for the rest of your life, only, like this end.

Sure. 

And because I, I feel like my hesitation station is like, Oh, what's the thing I want to talk about? What's that thing? What do, what do I want to be synonymous with my name when people say Sheree Canning or Luminate Leadership? What's that thing? 

That's, that's crippling. Like as a, that's keeping me at the hesitation station as well.

And I think for me at that point in time, what was more important for me was actually just being a capital A author. I wanted that identity more than anything else. So Jenny Blake, she calls it the low hanging watermelon. I love that phrase. Yeah, I love it too. And that was the low hanging watermelon. It was like right there in front of me.

And it's actually nice to put a ribbon on some work that you've done and, and I thought that having a podcast about it, a Facebook group talking about it for five years would've been like the authority. But a client in London and she's like, oh, I've listened to all your podcasts, but when I read your book, I want, I, I thought, now I wanna hire you.

[00:34:00] So, 

wow, 

I know, 

and there's something in it. There absolutely is. There is a hundred percent. Yeah. So when's my book coming, Leanne? It's a great question. 

Yeah, I, yeah, there's a, and everyone's got advice on that, but I think I see, yeah, Cherie, definitely. I see author in your tagline really soon. It's just a matter of, like, what that is, but, yeah.

Can I 

socialise something with you? Absolutely. And, maybe the listeners of this podcast, uh, this is the first time I'm talking about this out loud, really, is I am thinking around a Lead with Courage book, really, that's bringing in the stories from all of the guests as, you know, when we ask that question, what does Lead with Courage mean to you?

And for me, gathering all of those patterns, all of those themes. And there are, there are themes. I've got them. We've seen, like, I've got them on paper, right? Okay, here are some key themes, then adding some my stories to some of those themes, [00:35:00] and then also some practical leadership skills or tools connecting to those things.

I 

can see that. I can see you doing that in 52 days. No, I think that's wonderful. It's so aligned with everything you talk about, everything you preach, everything you want to. Bring into the world with your clients. Hmm. How are you? Are you excited about it? 

Yeah, terrified terrified and excited. Yeah Yeah, absolutely my own personal core value What like our company core value is lead to courage hence this name one of my personal core values is courage And that's something that is really Really really firm in me.

That is like just a core way of being in so many different ways in life and so Yeah, that, that feels right, and now I'm saying it out loud. Leanne, you're a, you're a gift to me. Thank you. I 

just think the meta level of that is it takes courage for you to put out the book on courage. Like, that's a courageous thing for you to do.

Even in, so a lot of the time, like, I don't know when you find working, like, a lot of it's just role modelling the behaviours. Like, you can talk about it, but you living [00:36:00] it. Yeah. Right, so you bringing this book out. is the courage. It's usually an act 

of courage. And yeah, I, I, it's very much when we talked about your website before and going it might not be everyone's cup of tea and we're okay with that.

I've had people say to me, well, like, oh, courage, leadership, like, oh really? And again, I think it's that where we go, oh, that's okay. Like, I'm not necessarily to speak to that person. Not that I dismiss them, uh, but that's not the audience then. That's, that's not the people that you're writing the book for.

That's right. And you're not this is sounding aggressive, you're not cutting off your arm when you write that book, by the way. Like, it's, it's, it's a signal to the market that you do this thing, but it doesn't mean that you don't do all these other things as well. It's like, kind of like the I've got some terrible, I, I get the gateway drug to Cherie and her work and do we like her style?

Great. We'll get in for other work. 

Yeah. And then we'll really get addicted. 

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe we look for 

another analogy. 

Definitely. Yeah. I know you talk about kindness. Yeah. Totally anti kind analogies. I'm so sorry. I know. But we get it. 

We get [00:37:00] it. I can connect to that. Yeah. You're right. And, and for anyone, I mean, for me, this is a beautiful gift for me and anyone who's looking at writing that book and putting.

whatever that is out to the world and yeah, I think the shitty first draft is I've got that expression from Brene Brown in my head and whether it's the 52 days and then getting the community feedback, I know our mutual friend Mel Loy, she's written her first book and is working on her second book now and similar, I think she was saying she's got, you know, her people who are giving her feedback and really using that and it doesn't have to Yeah, you can write another one if the first one isn't you go That's not going to be the only piece of me that's out in the world.

You write the next one. 

Yeah, so you then you, you write another book. 

Yeah, well exactly. 

If something else becomes more important or yeah, you've got more passion linked to it, then you write the next book I guess. 

Yeah, I mean like we look at people like Michael Bungay Stanier now, like every year there's a book coming out. Like the, [00:38:00] so you have every opportunity in the world to just reposition.

Yes, I wonder for him, and maybe you've had this conversation with him, you know the, The Coaching Habit is such a hit and it's, it's a phenomenal book. We use it and reference it in so much of the work that we do at Luminate. How does he, and maybe I've got to ask him one day, but on his behalf, you know, to keep reinventing to go to the next one when you've had such a successful book?

I think I even said to him, like, if I was you, I'd just be like surfing. I'm done. I would be surfing. I'm done. Do 

not write another book. 

I think, I do remember Jenny Blake blogging about this, because she had a catch up with Michael in New York recently, and she asked him the same question, because her book Pivot was really, it was an amazing success, and her subsequent books haven't been.

As popular and he actually said look he's just so grateful that he had a hit like how often in your life Do you get a hit? He's just grateful for that at the same time. He wants to remain relevant and Probably just stay engaged in work So I think that's [00:39:00] probably the motivator and I think with this new book He was wants to disrupt the big four and like, you know, he's all about disrupting and utilizing power and stuff like that Yeah, yeah, it goes back to purpose It does 

it does and I love that shift like I am just grateful that I got a hit Yeah, not having to better it or expect that from the others and to remain relevant.

And I heard him speak at the ATD conference last year and on his new book and yeah, it was great. It's so powerful. So, and you can see his passion or his current new book, not what he's working on now. So yeah, that passion, I think in the work that we do, it's a good lesson for us all regardless of the roles that we play.

to keep passion alive. Like, how do you keep the passion alive? Whether it's writing another book, whether that's taking a break whatever it may be. But to keep that passion alive, the world needs us to keep that passion. 

I really do think that. I think a lot of the reason companies hire, like both of us, is just because of the energy that we provide them.

And it's, you know, it's fresh energy and it's excitement. And [00:40:00] we're passionate about that and that helps them become passionate about it as well. 

Yeah, absolutely. Can I ask you about your energy? What do you do to maintain and sustain your energy because you know in the work that we do you're giving energy a lot of the Time and it seems to be an abundance and natural for you, and I also know as humans We've got to replenish the energy.

So what are your rituals or your habits? How do you keep that energy where it's at? 

Oh, that's good. Yeah. Well, I'm definitely not like this all the time I mean talk to my husband about this question, but I I think I love getting I mean, I'm definitely a morning person I really love getting a good sort of eight hours I love getting outside walking in the morning, walking or running that sets me up for the day.

I do like spacious. I'm pretty I definitely do control my calendar And so even like with this podcast and if I want to get guests on I'm like hey just send me a five minute voice And I don't play it on the show versus jumping on another invite so I kind of like to protect my energy that way I know my energy streams.

I'm pretty useless after Like, three o'clock in the afternoon. [00:41:00] 

Okay. 

What time of week? Yeah, 

great. 1. 30. We're good to go. We're good to go. We've got another hour and a half left of Leanne. 

Yeah. But then I do, I get hangry, I, I, I then go the other way. Like, I can get, uh, really tired and people yeah, I'm an extrovert, but I love, like, I would love a weekend just like reading on my iPad and just watching some Netflix and not having any commitments.

And so when I do have those, like, multi day events that we both run, the day after, I'll just block out. Uh, unless it's something that has to go in. So I just need that space, like, to get a massage or just to catch up. Just to be behind the screen. Because being front of stage, like, you're always on. Even during the breaks.

Yes. There isn't really a break. No. It's just a different level of energy. But you're still engaging with people in the breaks. Yeah. 

And when you're away as well, like, you're not eating the best food. You're not sleeping as well. And I just understand that for the two or three days that I'm there, Sure, like I'm gonna, I'm just going to be running sometimes on empty and I can do that, which is like, I think when you're like, [00:42:00] it's like when you're an athlete, like you have to perform, there's no, there's no other option.

And so, I'm pretty good at just going like, come on Leanne, let's do this and I'll bring it. And then, yeah, I'll be absolutely exhausted by the end of the day. 

Yeah. Yes. And it's interesting. I think I found myself in the last few podcasts. conversations we've been having. This topic keeps coming up and the need when we talk about athletes, you know, rest and recovery is a huge part of their performance.

And yes, how do we can, we can still achieve so much, strive for so much, do so much that we are so capable. when we manage our energy. I think if we're not managing the energy, that's where we get into burnout. That's where we lose passion. That's where we lose effectiveness. And it's just not a happy place for anybody.

No, it's not a happy place. I think I did that post around, I call it like the hip, the high intensity interval performer. I'm basically just like that. I'm not consistent. Everyone's like, I could be consistent. I'm actually not consi I mean, podcasting a bit of exercise. Other than your daily podcast. Yeah, I'm not really a consistent [00:43:00] person, and sometimes I do let things slip, but they're things that actually don't really matter.

I think there's people, like, there's very responsible people that are organisations who respond to every email, and I just, I'm not that person but I've had to pick, like, I'm very selective over, like, what do I respond to, and what's, like, really what's urgent here and what's not. 

Yeah, yes. Is that something you've just trained yourself to do over the years?

Yeah, because I think over time you realize that sometimes there aren't any repercussions for letting things slide. Which is kind of like a cheeky, I've never shared that publicly, but people wouldn't know. I mean if, if I shared this even on my podcast people that I worked with in the past, they'd probably know, like I let some things slide, but you're like, just because something is inbound doesn't mean You have to respond to it.

Yeah, 

yeah. And that's one of the challenges I think with digital where everyone's got access to everyone, which is a beautiful thing. The accessibility that we have is wonderful and then the pressure that we then add to ourselves to respond, to [00:44:00] answer, to reply. It's a lot. I know. 

And then you wake up the next day, was that on LinkedIn?

Is that on WhatsApp? Like, Messenger? I don't remember which channel. Has 

someone created an aggregator for all this yet? Because that is, I literally had that conversation with someone. I'm like, I'm sorry I've missed this because it was in this other channel that I don't always access and I'm trying to digital detox a little bit.

So I'm, you know, trying to put some boundaries and now I've missed your message and ah, can somebody create that please? 

I know. And yet, uh, there's some people there Handle it really well, and I think it like I know I could talk about Alan Weiss again But the big mentor in my life written 60 books on consulting rockstar of consulting But he responds to every email super fast, but his responses are like two sentences a word He just doesn't care about the nicety you know and like that's that's also fearlessness as well as 

like 

he's getting back to you So he's responsive, but in terms of like you know I've spent a bit of time Asking them about their son or daughter.

You know I would do that So what's important here? Yeah. Is it getting the response or [00:45:00] is it? Yeah. And I, that's something we navigate all the time and we have to 

respond. . And then at the same time, honoring your own boundaries and your own time and not people pleasing.

And there's a really fine balance, or I find that a really challenging, I find it really challenging. 

And as you build, as your brand gets like even bigger. It gets harder and there was a point in time a few years ago where it's like I'm spending more time responding to these people I don't even know and not even valued like not even seeing my own family There's something then I really had to just shift it and just be like it's like great cool reddit Oh, I'll block some time or actually get into those mediums and just bulk like just smash out those responses rather than doing some kind of piecemeal But just knowing your priorities and back to your values.

Yeah, and so it's probably why Taylor Swift still hasn't written back to me

Because 

it won't let me send any more than that. 

[00:46:00] Stop. 

Just stop. I have not, I've only just realised what a swifty I, that I am. Like I, I didn't even know this in myself. It's a, it's a new thing for me. 

Is that after your, cause you went to Melbourne. 

Twice. Two 

nights. Yeah, amazing. 

Two nights in a row. Yeah, and since then it was my daughter Chloe loves Taylor Swift And so when we knew she was coming we went okay Well, we'll see if we can get tickets and being the doting parents that you are and go Well, you've never been to a concert so may as well take you twice 

 Anyway, it was the greatest weekend of our lives. I'm, I'm quite sure. I love 

the content. I mean, you, you won Instagram that weekend.

You were so close. 

Oh, it was ridiculous. We were on the first night we saw that was her first night in in Australia for the errors tour. And yeah, we were right down the end of the T section of that of that stage and it was phenomenal. And if about personal brand, you know, yeah, she is. She's just a masterpiece, and [00:47:00] I listened to and so this is where then I went on to my Taylor journey , have you listened to the acquired podcast? 

Yeah, I love that show. The Nike and the Porsche episode. 

Yes. Yes. Are my favorites. And the Taylor Swift one. Okay. Give it a listen. 

I 

will. It is fascinating. There's so much I learned about her as a businesswoman around disrupting things, the way that she would, advocate for herself, but other artists when Apple started, Apple music in the beginning. And yeah, it's, it's a fascinating podcast. 

I am going to choose 

more than just a pop star with the beautiful red lip. 

But isn't it funny? Like I, cause I saw Luke Coombs the other day and I'm like, I'm, I love him even more.

Like I thought, isn't that funny how you think you like an artist and you see them live and then you just like, I just haven't stopped listening to his music and then like reading about him. Amen. 

Yeah, and it's almost a reverse, like now you're like, can you come back again so I can watch you again?

 So yeah, I hear you. I hear you. Music. There is really, if you were to ask me about energy for me, music is a [00:48:00] huge piece for energy for me.

Do you 

have like various Spotify playlists? Yeah, I do. 

I do. And I've got a little bit of. Uh, meditative chanting music for times. I've got a little, a lot of Taylor Swift. I've got a lot of Hamilton, the musical. Yeah. Amazing. So yeah, it just depends what the mood that I need. Do I need to calm? Do I need to energize?

And for me singing, I'm not a good singer. When I'm at home singing I believe that I am and I act like I am but I'm not I'm not a great singer But when I sing it moves that energy for me, like it's that mind body connection Just moving sound through your body is so powerful 

Yeah And like and then you step up like if you've got that you felt that and then you walk into a room people feel that Off you as well without even you having to say anything like it's so Commanding your own state and being in charge of that is like the ripple effects 

What's your pre pre?

Speaking, facilitation, how do you get that energy just before? Yeah, 

definitely music is a big one. So I [00:49:00] either could go to playlists. I actually, I think it's even called stuff, stuff to listen to when I need to get into state. Yes, love it. Yeah I definitely need to get the endorphins moving before in the morning.

I need to know that I, whatever I've done to prepare is done. 

Like, 

so I don't have to go in and toggle anything. I'm just and then I really, the day of, I'm just focusing on what, what do we want to help, like, how do I want to help this group? So it's shifting the focus off me and then going how we make this a really great experience for those in the room.

But with the MBS event, like, none of that. I was just so scatty and nervous beforehand. Even though you would look at me and think I'm completely calm I wasn't. Yeah, I remember saying to my friend Kate, she's like, Oh, how you going? How you feeling? And I'm like, Oh my goodness, the person I'm most scared to facilitate is like my co facilitator.

So that's never happened before. 

Wow. What was, what was that for you? 

It was more, uh, just when you, like, he was my, he's my hero. Like, I love him, he's, he's fantastic. And so you think, and it's such a special moment, I wanna, I wanna add to the experience here. I'm putting, it's just the additional pressure I put on myself.

It wasn't from anyone else. [00:50:00] I mean, everyone was there for Michael, so it's like there really was no pressure. It was just that kind of. 

Did you really just say that? Yeah. Everyone was there for Michael. And you. Thank you. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, 

yeah. 

Definitely. 

Thanks, Trey. 

Yeah. If you do another rooftop and there's no Michael, I'll still be there.

Okay. And also, he was a draw card too. So, definitely, yes, Michael and Leanne. Wow, lovely. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah, I love, I love us knowing whether you're a presenter, speaker, even if it's a leader needing to run a meeting that they're a bit nervous or rolling out a change or. Someone's, even just anyone speaking in an environment where it's discomfort, understanding your body, understanding how do you get yourself into the right state.

Tony Robbins always talks about, you know, that state triangle, the physiology, language and focus. And that really, I learned about that in 2011 and it's stuck with me ever since. You know, what are we doing to [00:51:00] move, move that energy in our body and then the language internally and externally and the focus that we have.

Potent combination. 

Yeah, I'm just like once I start I'm completely fine. It's just like there's like just the lead up I don't like at all and I haven't really hacked it, but I was the same playing netball like a big game I'll just be spending all day Thinking about it, and when I was on the court, it's fine when you're in it.

You're in flow then. Yeah, it's 

just a thing, and I think I just have to deal with it. And I was reading actually Ivan Cleary's book, he's an NRL coach at the Panthers, and he was saying, everyone thinks that I'm calm and collected, because on the inside, like, things are racing. And this is the thing around authenticity, is like, if I was to be authentic, you would not want that in a speaker.

Because it's like, it would be frazzled, it would be chaotic. So, it's just harnessing that, and just getting through it. And then being in the moment, like you said. 

Yes, yes. And all of us understanding what that feels like and looks like is such a human experience, but how we manage it and how we can contain it or allow it to be [00:52:00] part of the expression and not be scared of it.

I feel like when we try and push it away or try not to be nervous, I don't know about you. Yeah, I agree. I feel like if I'm not a little bit nervous, not to the point where it renders me inactive, but if I'm not nervous. I probably have, I'm not caring enough. 

I'm with you. Yeah. And I'm like, what's wrong with me?

Yeah. Why do I not care? Yeah. And I'm like, what is going on here? 

Yeah. Yes. And then I get the same before podcast, every episode, I get a little bit jittery. I'm like, Sheree, you've done this. Like what's the, okay. No, no, no. I mean, I mean, yeah, it's a good feeling. It keeps us sharp. Yes. And just be comfortable with the discomfort.

Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. Leanne, I have some cards and I'm going to grab. Some of them are our we use these cards in some of our workshops. There's some random questions and I thought maybe as our last question for the episode, would you do me the honours of pulling out one of these cards and answering it, if you will?

What is something you have learned recently [00:53:00] that you are grateful for? Learned recently? Actually did an episode, because it's Valentine's Day tomorrow, about all the things that I love. But in terms of, one thing, uh, I know I've been great, like inherently great for this, for this, but it didn't really sort of stand out until recently, looking at what's happening in Gaza, California as well, just having a home.

I know that's, like, we all go, I'm grateful for, like, but the, I don't think I realized how important it was having a stability. Like, I talk about risk taking all the time. In order to take risks, you need a foundation. And when I was looking at those scenes overseas, uh, and even homelessness in Australia, and people, like, it's like, it's not that easy to, to go out and do things and, and put yourself on the line when you don't have something to return to.

And home is more than just a, a physical location. It's, it's where I go to, to rejuvenate. It's my place of safety. And so While I appreciate it, like I've always appreciated it, it was more in those [00:54:00] recent events and seeing the rate of homelessness now. When I go running on Sunday mornings in West End, I just that has really hit home, like how lucky we are to have a home.

Yeah, it's so beautiful. And actually you're joining us this year for the Vinnies CEO sleep out and part of the goats team. And that's, that's coming up in June. And I am going to do like without shame shout out for this because making a big difference where the goal is to raise a million dollars. for the fundraising efforts leading up to June, and what is, Vinnies have committed to is 500 homes over five years.

So, building homes and giving people that opportunity, because homelessness and people experiencing it is, is really rampant. And, I don't know if it's even been announced, but the The venue, I don't know if I'm, what I'm about to say, I'm going to get in trouble for, but I'm going to say it anyway. The venue for the CEO Sleepout this year is at the Gabba.

And the Gabba has, I think, 30 or 40, 000 seats. 43, 000 is what [00:55:00] I feel is the right number, in and around that. And that's how many people are on the social housing wait list in South East Queensland at the moment. So the 43, 000 seats, so they're about that will be surrounded by at the Gabba, every seat will reflect someone in our community waiting on a wait list to get social housing.

I've got goosebumps. I know what the gab is like when it's full. Yeah. There's a lot of people and, yeah, it's the responsiveness to that. I think there's a lack of creativity in the solutions. Yeah, we are Australians. This should not be a problem. It's awful. So I'm really, anyway, but moving to a positive note, you've done a great job galvanizing everyone and like, I'm scared of sleeping out in the cold, but.

I love that you created a community around this, and it's going to be a great event. 

Well, thank you. I'm really grateful that you're joining us. , I'm thrilled to be part of this community, people making a difference. And, yeah, , it's actually a beautiful tie in to what you said about the gratitude, and, and having a home, and doing our bit to contribute.

[00:56:00] And if anyone wants to join us, they're welcome to do so. Leanne, thank you so much for joining us. today and I just love being able to sit in your energy and what a joy that is for me and hopefully it's been an enjoyable conversation for everyone listening also but if nothing else I've just loved this time with you.

Me too, I've loved 

sitting in your energy as well. I hope listeners can hear that too. So thank you for this amazing opportunity, lovely to see the incredible studio you've got too and really think about these great questions and reflect on those so thanks for the opportunity.